[a5seo]

I used to agree with this, but lately I feel like any learnings are going to have a short shelf life. With the EMD updates and on-going refinements to Penguin, how long can any truly effective hack really be expected to work?

I'm glad Google is cleaning house b/c it became annoying trying to counsel people to not violate the Webmaster Guidelines when they could point to successful competitors or some backwater infomercial claiming they could shortcut their way by spamming.

The best strategy I've found is just to not shoot yourself in the foot in terms of site structure and IA, and invest in long-term value through link building with PR and content that naturally attracts links.

[skulquake]

I wish some of the "real" black hatters could come on here and speak. These guys are the ones putting together massive strategies/campaigns to rank across a wide variety of thousands of key terms. And there not writing about it. The techniques many people are talking about now were done maybe 2-3 years before this whole mess. They are so far ahead of what the "industry" is focused on it's not even funny.

[a5seo]

Some black hatters make money, but for every 1 who does, 50 don't. Spend some time on WarriorForum or SEOBook and you'll see a very low signal to noise ratio. Lots of people are just preying on people who want to get rich quick with now work by selling them hope in the form of "info products".

And the black hatters who make money could probably make just as much if they did something legit.

The worst part about black hat is eventually the wheels fall off and you have to start over. So you're playing a game that keeps you on a constant treadmill. It's just as bad as consulting as a way to make a living.

If you take the high road, you build real value you can exit on eventually.

[thenextcorner]

You know there is a reason they don't participate on these forums... It's a waste of their time! They are so busy working their strategy, making money on the web, that any time spent on a discussion like this, while no money is made, is very low on their priorities.

[illuminate]

I doubt they're making a ton on the hustle, but I agree that they're probably not the type to waste time discussing points with other, likely more hostile crowds.

[thenextcorner]

What makes you doubt that? If there was no money to be made, these wouldn't be spam, Viagra Wordpress hacks or Phishing attempts.

You have no idea...

[a5seo]

I've seen what some of them do, and it's not as impressive as you'd think. Most of it breaks and stops working inside of 24 months. Then it's on to the next scam. Not a lot different from fly-by-night snake oil salesmen.

Just the existence of spam doesnt prove it's a big oppotunity, just that it's better for some people than their opportunity cost.

[explicitlyme]

Some make &10,000 a DAY.

Ever looked at the payday SERP in the UK? Google can't control it. I know at least 3-4 people who make £100,000 a year with just basic level spamming.

If I scaled this technique http://explicitly.me/serp-sniffing-a-long-tail-keyword-strat... , I could make the same amount of money without breaking a sweat by dumping Adsense on there, and shopping affiliate links.

The point is I don't choose to.