[javert]

I was under the impression that the "last mile" was owned by whatever company had been granted the local monopoly. If the "last mile" is owned by the government, and the power companies connect at hubs, then there is no actual "natural monopoly." I think that's actually a good solution.

A better solution would be to have the "last mile" owned by the people who own properties, but that may be nit picking. And I think that's probably how things would have eventually developed without government intervention.

Now, I think that in reality, power companies (in the US, at least) almost always are regulatory monopolies, i.e., government-granted ones. But, because of the "last mile" solution, they don't _need_ to be.

In summary, I feel like my point that natural monopolies don't exist is still supported.

When a corporation thinks it can make money by suing municipalities that form broadband networks, they do so. Like in Lafayette.

You can't (logically) use one abuse of government power to justify other government power that counteracts it, which seems to be your argument.

In the example you gave, the abuse is being able to win invalid lawsuits, and that is being used to justify government regulation of arbitrary industries (telco, in this specific case).

Better to just make it so you can't win invalid lawsuits.

Because the cable companies and the ISPs and the media companies are largely owned by the same people, and collude monopolistically.

They do collude monopolistically: the telcos have government-granted regulatory monopolies.

deregulation achieved through the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

Given that the telco industry is 100% made up of government-granted regulatory monopolies, this act clearly did not implement deregulation.

[tossacct]

>>>Given that the telco industry is 100% made up of government-granted regulatory monopolies, this act clearly did not implement deregulation.

I do not think it is controversial to say that deregulation is the act or process of removing or reducing state regulations. I have checked several dictionaries and encyclopedias, on line and dead-tree.

So a slight reduction in the regulatory laws that contributed to the formation of "government-granted regulatory monopolies" is deregulation. Therefore, the 1996 telecommunications Act of 1996 is deregulation, since it reduced and removed some, but not all, regulatory laws.

If we can agree on this, I will reply to the rest of your comment. If we disagree I can still reply, but the definition is really important to my argument.

[javert]

I think that a _proper_ definition of "deregulation" is "completely removing regulation." Anything short of that is "partial deregulaiton."

I think that many people act as if and/or think that a proper definition of "deregulation" is "reducing regulation."

However, I see no point in arguing about definitions. I propose that we just use the terms "complete deregulation" and "partial deregulation" from here on out, so as to be non-ambiguous.

Given this, let me state my stance on partial deregulation. I thought about stating it earlier, but it seemed just barely too tangential.

I think partial deregulation is often much worse than regulation.

For example, regulation may take the form of "Cable company X has the exclusive right to lay coaxial cable in our city. In return, cable company X must allow our city to have our own special channel where we can post public announcements; and, it must lay wire to all areas of the city, regardless of income level; and, it must allow the city to set rates that subscribers can be charged."

Under partial deregulation, X may be allowed to set whatever rates it wants, but still have the exclusive right to lay coaxial cable. So, it can gouge customers.

In this case, partial deregulation didn't correct a situation in which the government was overstepping its bounds. It partially corrected it, and in doing so, made things worse.

I think this is overwhelmingly the kind of thing that happens with partial deregulation, and I think partial deregulation is overwhelmingly what happens these days when politicians talk about deregulation.

Sorry, I know you just wanted me to agree/disagree with your definition rather than adding a bunch of new intellectual content... but I figured the above would be helpful (and likely similar to what you were thinking).

[tossacct]

>>>However, I see no point in arguing about definitions. I propose that we just use the terms "complete deregulation" and "partial deregulation" from here on out, so as to be non-ambiguous.

Agreed. All dictionaries disagree, but I'm not talking to any of them.

I believe that all reasonable people agree that history has shown that monopolies are inefficient in a capitalist system(see the 1920s for example). I feel that government-granted regulatory monopolies are also inefficient in a capitalist system. From your comments, I assume that you agree with both of these things, please let me know if you have a different view.

My understanding of the invention of regulations is this: Full deregulation of business seems like the best possible solution, until the point that companies become so big that they form monopolies that stifle competition. Then the government has to come in and regulate them until they are no longer monopolies. From your comments, I assume that you agree with this, let me know if you have different views.

I have to go eat but I have a comment written up about natural monopolies with relation to telcos ready to be edited and then posted.

[javert]

Full deregulation of business seems like the best possible solution, until the point that companies become so big that they form monopolies that stifle competition. Then the government has to come in and regulate them until they are no longer monopolies. From your comments, I assume that you agree with this, let me know if you have different views.

Well, I don't think natural monopolies exist (as we discussed previously), only regulatory monopolies.

So, I don't think companies can become so big that they become natural monopolies.

I had written about some example cases that help support this (IBM, MS, Bell Telephone), but it was too long and probably not worth it, so I removed them.