[pretoriusB]

>When you use this manipulation to get your way to your kids, the kid watches you, and you find yourself the lab rat of a psychological manipulator far more capable then yourself. And the kid uses tricks you never heard of to shape your behaviour. Which causes a feedback loop of who can trick the other into doing what they want better.

It's not a manipulation or a trick.

It's a "reward system". You get X only if you do Y. Period.

It has worked wonders for ages. Still does in most parts of the world. The US has a messed up system that ends with annoying, over-self-indulged, entitled children and adults.

[Cushman]

> The US has a messed up system that ends with annoying, over-self-indulged, entitled children and adults. [citation needed]

[nmcfarl]

Walk outside. My god, yesterday some guy didn't like me walking in the crosswalk, when he wanted to make a right turn so he swerved into the oncoming traffic lane to make his right (and cut me off). This versus wait 5 seconds.

Annoying, over-self-indulged and entitled. Also damn dangerous.

[Cushman]

Where I live in America, pedestrians seem highly obedient of walk signals and drivers seem highly observant of crosswalks.

You got me as far as "confirmation bias". Still looking up that citation?

[nmcfarl]

Where I live in America, Seattle, has a amazing reputation for pedestrians being highly obedient of walk signals and drivers being highly observant of crosswalks (and generally polite).

But in fact everyone I know who commutes on foot has been hit by a car in the last 5 years. No one’s been hurt badly, thankfully. (I don’t think anyones even gone to the hospital in that time period - unlike the bicycle commuters I know.)

I know that's small sample size - and poorly chosen - still it suggests bad things.

[Cushman]

> still it suggests bad things

Well, yeah. Human beings are not equipped to operate motor vehicles safely, and there is a mountain of evidence to support that fact. It doesn't have anything to do with parenting, though.

[pretoriusB]

Road rage? People going on rampage with guns and killing tens of innocents? Fatso kids screaming in restaurants and behaving badly in public? The most BS self-entitled complaints in restaurant/hotel/etc reviews always written by Americans? People posting pictures of their cats? Do any of these things ring a bell?

[Cushman]

Are you asking if I've heard of these things, or if I know their relative prevalences in different countries and what that's supposed to mean? Because yes, and no, although my intuition is that the road rage, shootings, and racist YouTube comments look way worse other places.

> People posting pictures of their cats?

Man, you got some messed up trauma or something.

[pretoriusB]

Citation is needed in novel and unexpected statements and conclusions. ("Extraordinary claims", etc).

Well known facts should need no citation upon an audience of educated adults.

Still, here's a secondary corroboration for you: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020474090457719...

[Cushman]

That you think that unsourced opinion piece constitutes "secondary corroboration" indicates that perhaps you do not, in fact, understand when citation is needed.

[pretoriusB]

Ever tried looking around you? Do you need a citation that air is important for breathing?

[Cushman]

Funnily enough, I can't see air, and if you could not provide any other evidence for its existence I would be extremely skeptical.