[guylhem]

Yes, there ma be an education bubble out there, but it's easy to critize education when you already have gotten it and the privileges it entails - such as understand how it potentially is a bubble!

But even with that knowledge of the high risks of a bubble, and even if one tries to forget the many studies proving education is a worthwhile investment (for the increased salary benefits one gets - cf signalling theory) how munch do you think the capacity to learn and create is worth? How valuable is it to you?

Some people do not need any formal education to get that. But many do. And even those who don't "need" a formal education can take great advantage of it - for ex finding some golden insights with a marketable value, formalizing their knowledge, or even better- learning how to create new knowledge (PhD)

There is a growing anti intellectual bias - even here on HN. Whatever, but least leave aside your opinion and consider the facts.

(conflict of interest warning - I made an "investment" in my education, and therefore I could have a biased opinion)

[InclinedPlane]

There absolutely is an education bubble. That doesn't mean that education is worthless, far from it. Houses are never worthless even when there are huge housing bubbles. The problem is the runaway, unsustainable cost.

I got my degree from a local state school in the mid 90s. And then I went back and pursued another degree in a dual-major for another 3 years before finally deciding I wanted to do something else and leaving school. That was a luxury I had because school was so cheap, my parents paid for most of school and I was able to graduate without any debt. Today that same educational experience at the same school would cost nearly twice as much per year adjusted for inflation. Which is just not supportable without taking on most of it as debt for most people. And if you go to out of state tuition plus rent the costs are enormous, and also unsustainable for even people from reasonably affluent families.

Meanwhile, it's become oh so much easier to take on massive amounts of student loan debt, which has no doubt helped fuel some of this bubble.

No matter how valuable an education is, and I consider mine plenty valuable, when the cost doubles or more the benefit to cost ratio goes down substantially. And that's the core problem of the education bubble today. It used to be that moderately valuable degrees were still good, because they could be gotten cheaply enough, but now every degree is hugely expensive so the less valuable degrees now have a much lower RoI and are much less worthwhile investments.

[muzz]

If there is "absolutely" a bubble, please explain the motivation for individuals to participate in the "bubble"?

I.e. with the housing bubble and the stock market bubble, the motivation was to buy those assets solely in anticipation of being able to sell them at higher prices later on, thus being able to profit (and handsomely so).

[mdasen]

I don't think people are criticizing education. I think that a lot of people who have gotten degrees are looking back on their college education and wondering about the cost - particularly if they graduated with a degree that isn't leading into a comfortable career.

Universities in America are very expensive (even when you compensate for state aid). I remember getting a mailing from Amherst College back when I was applying to schools a decade ago noting that while the sticker price was in the mid-$30,000 range, the college was actually spending tens of thousands more than that price per student. I think it was to tell people, "even if you're paying full price, you're still getting a good deal." What stuck with me was the amount being spent.

Looking at many other countries with respectable third level education systems, they're spending less. According to the OECD, the United States spends $29,201 per student while the European Union spends $12,967. Over four years, that amounts to $64,936. If you consider that in many countries Arts Degrees are 3-year programs, the savings becomes $77,903.

So, even if one thinks education is wonderful, one can question "why is it becoming so expensive? what are American universities doing wrong?"

Similarly, there has been (although it's going away a bit) this idea that "the school matters more than the program" or "it's the Bachelor's degree that you need, not any specific skill." Being against those trains of thought isn't anti-intellectual. If anything, it's pro-intellectual. It's saying that you should learn good things rather than trying to take the easiest course at the place with the best reputation. Still, I think there are people questioning their undergraduate expense if they entered without much of a plan (college was simply "the next thing people of my status do"). Many of my friends have had to spend a year taking additional classes to prepare for a graduate program their undergrad didn't prepare them for - because they didn't know what they wanted to do at the time.

Here on HN, we typically dislike things like power imbalances, high prices, places that seem to have a lock on the market, etc. Universities can exemplify those things. Many people need formal education and universities do have valuable things to offer. However, I think a reasonable person who has been around universities will have seen a lot of money spent on things simply because the money is around; because students will pay it. That's bad.

To make an analogy: when people criticize certain ISPs, they aren't saying that they don't find the internet valuable. When it comes down to it, I think most of us would part with $150+ for our internet connection. However, we don't evaluate price simply in terms of what we get out of it, but also with an eye toward whether the service is being offered at an efficient, fair price. If my ISP forced me to pay $150/mo, I probably would. The internet has high value to me. But, in that case, I would complain. Even if my ISP's margins were low (or even not-for-profit), I would question the efficiency with which they were provisioning my service; I would question whether they were wise with their spending; I would question whether they had a staffing mixture appropriate for their business; I would question whether their leadership knew what they needed to do in order to provide good service at an affordable price. I would question this because I would look at other, similar countries where people were being provisioned internet of substantially similar quality for substantially less money.