[ytadesse]

Unfortunately, this comment will probably get filtered to the bottom but this has to be said:

Since the story of Aaron's passing, this site has been home to a lynch-mob asking for Ortiz's head on a plate. I wish I knew enough about federal prosecutions to say whether or not this one was far different from the norm - hell, I wish I knew enough about depression and suicide to say whether or not the prosecution was the primary reason for this sad turn of events - but, regardless, the users HN have been relentless ... almost as if they wished harm on Carmen Ortiz.

I'm pointing that out for a reason. Bullying and outright harassment come in many forms. The end result of these actions are at times not the result that anyone truly intended even if they imply it with their words/actions. You can't on one hand accuse the feds of being overly aggressive while simultaneously doing the same to Ortiz and her family.

Let the law and the current investigations run their course before there are more unwanted consequences of this tragedy.

[declan]

I suspect that nearly all of the people on HN would be happy if Ms. Ortiz simply resigned.

The worst-case for Ms. Ortiz, post-resignation, is that she gives up short-term gubernatorial aspirations and quits to take a $1,500,000-$2,000,000 a year gig as a partner at a large Boston law firm advising on white collar criminal defense.

This is not exactly a horrible fate. In fact, most people would consider trying to bring that about the opposite of "wish[ing] harm on Carmen Ortiz."

[ytadesse]

The problem is, some people here on HN have been very aggressive in their attacks over the past few weeks - far worse than simply saying "she should resign".

In addition to that, I've seen people sulk and get visibly agitated for long periods of time after poor performance reviews at work. Now, compound that by thousands in the public doing that - and then some. Think about the effect that has on someone's mental well-being.

[declan]

Threats of violence or physical harm, if any were posted, are wrong and beyond the pale.

But some of the comments you criticized above are far tamer than much of what passes for discourse in American politics nowadays: "Someone needs to be held accountable. Ortiz is someone." "Carmen Ortiz needs to go. She's a publicity hound" "Someone needs to be held accountable. Ortiz is someone."

Nothing wrong with saying any of those things. If you have a high-profile position in the U.S. government (Ortiz was confirmed by the Senate), you should expect scrutiny if you screw up. If Ortiz wants to restore her "mental well-being," one option would be to resign and take that lucrative law firm gig. That she has not done so suggests she assumes she can weather this storm and criticism of her will eventually die down. HN readers have the right to challenge that assumption.

[officemonkey]

Oh horrors, what if she got depressed and killed herself.

[alan_cx]

If calling for resignation or a firing is bullying, then democracy is dead.

Next, the power she wields is magnitudes greater than an on line "lynch mob". There for the words like bullying cant apply. She is not a lonesome hacker. She is a very powerful person who can destroy lives.

My problem is that focusing on this person misses the entire point, which is that the system allows, no, encourages this sort of thing.

In short, even if she is fired and marched out at gun point, others will just do the exact same thing, over and over again.

[jlgreco]

> Since the story of Aaron's passing, this site has been home to a lynch-mob asking for Ortiz's head on a plate.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Generally when people draw comparisons to a certain European government in the early 20th century, others freak out, trotting out old usenet quotes and declaring that the person has "lost" the argument for making such offensively hyperbolic comparisons.

Why then does this same community seem so accepting of comparisons between calls for resignation of a government official, and the practice of barbaric humiliating murder without trial of underprivileged minorities?

This is hyperbolic bullshit.

[ytadesse]

So, clearly you're someone who doesn't use any hyperboles in his day-to-day life ... Anyway, here's just a sample of the comments about Ortiz here on HN:

"Great to see Ortiz's office crash and burn"

"Carmen Ortiz needs to go. She's a publicity hound"

"Do not google "site:nl 2 girls 1 cup". Should you so google, do not click. You have been warned. But I should add, even if you so click, the result is less obscene than Carmen Ortiz!"

"This woman has ZERO principle or sense of morality"

"Someone needs to be held accountable. Ortiz is someone."

"Ortiz is obviously disgusting"

"It's unfortunate that by demonizing Ortiz, we play right into the hands of those who appointed her"

"I support the demonization of Ortiz purely on the level of revenge."

[jlgreco]

Forget same ballpark, those are not even in the same fucking sport as lynching.

Being mad and wanting someone to be fired are not even reprehensible in the slightest. In any other profession if you fuck up, that's just what you would expect, but apparently some of you people think anyone working for the government is an untouchable perfect angel who must never be insulted nor fired.

[ytadesse]

What are you talking about?? You know what, I make a conscience effort not to engage in serious dialog with people who need to use swear words to make their point like a 14 year old on a schoolyard - especially those that ramble on about "the government". Relax, this is not about Uncle Sam.

[jlgreco]

What am I talking about? Your assertions of an " eye for an eye" reaction and lynch mobs are offensive and absurd. Actually offensive, not "offensive" like a mildly taboo word.

[nitrogen]

The "Ortiz is someone" quote may have been a paraphrase made as part of a complaint about some comments going too far.

You might also want to mention how many comments urged restraint in response to the most over-the-top attacks. Your sample is definitely not a random sample, but a curated set of some of the most excessive comments.

[dave_sullivan]

I upvoted you. I agree that a lynch-mob has formed around calling for Ortiz's blood. I'm not sure if this is good or bad.

It's bad for exactly the reasons you say.

It's good for the same reasons that they came down so harshly on Aaron--to make an example. The thing is, she represents the old guard--the old "I'm not good with computers but boy am I afraid of them" lobby. There is real money behind the internet now, and one of the perks of that is you get to demand representation and power. Just as Aaron made the mistake of getting into politics, so has Ortiz. Some examples need to be set that if the government expects us to bail them out in the future, they need to stop trying to put the best of us in jail.

[ytadesse]

Fair point but although it's tempting to go an eye-for-an-eye with Ortiz (and the federal government) after learning of Aaron's fate, I'm just not in a position to judge her actions. This is not my "holier than thou" moment, it's just that these situations are often far more complicated than a 500 word opinion piece on a blog.

[darkarmani]

Eye for an eye? No one is suggesting locking her up for 35 years. How is it a lynch mob when the worst that would happen is that she loses her job??

[mpyne]

Someone doxxed her right here on HN and suggested it would be a shame if people were to do something bad with that information. There's far worse than can happen as a result of this mob than losing her job.

[ytadesse]

"It's good for the same reasons that they came down so harshly on Aaron -- to make an example"

Making an example of someone in retribution for it happening to someone else is eye-for-an-eye.

[jlgreco]

No, it really is not. The two are wildly out of proportion.

You can simplify any crime imaginable and any punishment imaginable to declare the combination of the two "an eye for an eye", as you have just done here, does not make such a declaration legitimate.

[darkarmani]

Let's see if it matches up:

1. We need to make an example out of him and try to lock him up for 35 years.

2. We need to make an example out of her and get her fired.

[ytadesse]

Someone just down-voted this?! Really? I mean, really!? I post a polite, well-constructed, and well-reasoned opinion that's different from 99% of the opinions out there and instead of responding in a similar fashion, the best you could do is flag my comment? Very cowardly.

[YuriNiyazov]

You said "Unfortunately, this comment will probably get filtered to the bottom but this has to be said:" and then when it actually happened you flip out? I wasn't one of the ones to downvote you, but after seeing your reaction, I would have to say you most definitely deserved it. Also, allow me to point you to the HN guidelines that specifically frown on these particular behaviors:

Resist complaining about being downmodded. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

Please don't bait other users by inviting them to downmod you.

http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[ytadesse]

Getting filtered down to the bottom is not actually just a result of getting down-voted. Having a lack of activity (from people essentially ignoring your message) is actually the other reason why comments slowly trickle down to the bottom - and the one I suspected would happen as often does when people write-off your opinion.

As for your point about the "don't complain about being downmodded" - fair enough, and I'm sure I'll earn a few more downvotes thanks to your due-diligence :)

At the same time, once in a while, you have to stand for something in your life. I made a serious point about a serious topic and some coward came along and decided to "down-vote" instead of having some dialog about it. I may lose digital karma but at least my conscience is clear for defending something I believe in.

[chris_wot]

I down voted you, because I don't believe that folks want anything more than for Ortiz to resign. And you started the post talking about down voting, then you got upset when you got down voted.

[YuriNiyazov]

"At the same time, once in a while, you have to stand for something in your life."

I agree with you there. A posting on a newsboard might not be the best way to show your principles, though.

[ytadesse]

I agree with you there :) To be fair though, after seeing 2 weeks of posts on HN focused on demonizing an individual, I felt I needed to say something.

[nitrogen]

You really can't take downvotes on Hacker News so seriously. Heck, sometimes a downvote is just someone trying to scroll on their touchscreen and accidentally triggering the oversized hitbox for the downvote button (touchscreen browsers sometimes seem to expand the touchable area that will activate a link beyond the physical pixels occupied by that link).

As for your opinion, consider the possibility that you're overreacting to a few overreactions by emphasizing those comments that went too far and ignoring the ones that showed moderation.