[gnosis]

Having children is usually a selfish and/or conformist choice.

Many people have kids because that's what's expected of them, and because that's what all their friends and family are doing. They also usually hope to be less lonely with kids, have their kids support or take care of them when they're older, be able to mold their kids to be like them or further their goals, and have a sort of existence after their deaths through their kids, or even fix up their marriage by having kids -- all selfish reasons to have kids.

But the kids never asked to be born. As parents, you are essentially forcing life upon another being.

According to Silenus, "the best thing for a man is not to be born, and if already born, to die as soon as possible."[1]

This is not to mention the plague of overpopulation and all the resulting problems that unrestrained breeding has led to.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silenus

[quasque]

"But the kids never asked to be born. As parents, you are essentially forcing life upon another being."

This is illogical. They can't ask to be born because they are not born yet. In your argument, the arrow of time is pointing in the wrong direction.

And the parents are not forcing life upon a being like some sort of genitals-based Dr Frankenstein rigmarole - they are creating the being.

[gnosis]

"They can't ask to be born because they are not born yet."

That's the point. They don't have a choice in the matter. The choice is entirely the parents' (assuming it's not an accident or rape).

[quasque]

You are trying to support your point by arguing against a tautology. This doesn't make any sense.

[jacoblyles]

Ergo, the universe would be better without life?

This kind of philosophy is baffling to me. How could anyone find it attractive, except for the perverse pleasure you get from trolling other people? And what kind of value is that to base a life on?

[gnosis]

I don't know about there being no life at all, but we could start by having less kids, or at least having a deep second or third thought about it instead of it being the default direction a relationship should take.

Significantly fewer people having kids would sure take a load off this resource-scarce, overcrowded planet. It would help fight poverty, hunger, and war.

If you absolutely must have kids, here's to hoping that you'll at least do it for unselfish reasons -- such as that you sincerely hope (and intend to do everything you can to ensure) that your child will improve the world in some way, rather than having a child for the selfish or conformist reasons I described in my earlier post.

[orangethirty]

Well, I'm glad my mom was not dating you.