[swong8]

I still don't get why folks don't consider living in places just outside of SF that are much more affordable. Places such as South San Francisco, Daly City, Brisbane, Oakland, etc. The proximity to the city is very close (5-10 mins).

[wpietri]

None of those places are, in practice, 5-10 minutes from a place you want to be. You can see that in the BART schedules: http://www.bart.gov/schedules/bylineresults.aspx?route=7&...

And that doesn't include walking or waiting time.

Driving might seem like a plausible option, but that's generally worse. Oakland City Center to Embarcadero is 25 minutes by car, not counting parking. Daly City to the Mission is 20 minutes. And that's not counting parking, which is never easy in SF.

People do live in those places. But it's definitely living in another city.

[usaar333]

May I ask where you are getting the driving numbers?

I live/work in soma and as long as I avoid commute traffic, Daly City really is only ~10 minutes away. A coworker lives in Brisbane and his commute averages 11 minutes. I frequently visit parts of Oakland far further from City Center (say Mills College area), and it is just under 20 minutes.

If you lack a car, well, the numbers look terrible as well in San Francisco. This is most obvious when you note that you can bike from most A to most B faster than Muni can take you. As another example, downtown Oakland is closer to Embarcadero or even Union Square by BART than Inner Sunset is by Muni Metro.

[wpietri]

All times were from Google Maps and BART schedules. Google Maps currently lists Daly City to Moscone as 14 minutes nominal, 17 minutes with traffic.

The "as long as I don't drive when most people want to drive" thing is nice if that works for you, but it's definitely not the common case. Most people have to commute when most people have to commute.

[usaar333]

Oh did you mean Mission Street (as in Soma), not the mission district?

I agree driving to the Moscone sucks (driving on 3rd past Harrison is a nightmare).

Things are much better if you are talking about the Mission District: https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Daly+City,+CA&daddr=M...

(I mentioned "avoiding commute traffic" as I figured "place you want to be" meant for fun, not work.)

[georgemcbay]

5-10 minutes without traffic, 5-10 hours with traffic.

[kk3]

bart.

[No1]

After midnight on weekends? When people like to go out?

Or on a week day, when the parking lots are beyond full?

[greggman]

Have you ever lived in a city where you can easily walk or take public transportation?

If you're into drinking, even socially, it means no designated driver. No hunting for parking (can take > 10 mins in SF), especially in the areas where all the food and bars are.

Most neighborhoods in SF (and I'm guessing NYC) there's usually some shopping district with a street full of stores and restaurants, non-national chain, within walking distance.

Growing up in Orange County that is something I had never experienced and at least until I have a spouse and kids I don't really want to go back to.

Where I live I'm within a 3 minute walk to a Whole Foods, 15 or so restaurants. A convenience store. 3 cleaners. A twice a week farmers market. Several banks. A drug store. 6 bars. 5 coffeeshops. 2 bookstores. 2 bike stores. And I'm only a 10 minute walk from the mission or a 5 minute walk to the muni (to go downtown).

Compare to the O.C. where pretty much had to drive everywhere. Daly City is a similar place.

[usaar333]

It depends what your definition of SF is. If you are talking relative to the incredibly expensive north-eastern part of San Francisco, I agree. But Daly City, etc. aren't that much cheaper than the Sunset/Richmond/Excelsior, especially when you consider that a car will become much more necessary.

That said, SF is more of a place to live if you don't have children (and if you have children, you better be rich). Those with kids tend to live in the suburbs.

[mikec3k]

How about San Leandro? I see some condos there for under $200k and it seems to be convenient for BART.

[re_todd]

Yeah, I noticed some low housing prices in San Leandro too last summer, is this a safe place to live? Anyone?

[w1ntermute]

Anybody know what the North Bay is like? Is it very expensive?

[dpatrick86]

Beautiful and actually, in some cases, substantially cheaper... depending on how north we're talking about. I'd prefer it to Oakland -- but I'm ok with suburbs.

[w1ntermute]

What about transportation?

[graysnorf]

The curse of the north bay is the lack of trains. BART runs to the east bay, but not the north.

The ferry is basically worthless if you don't actually live in San Rafael. It's a nice ride, but very slow, and not cheap.

Personally, I quite like the bus system: if you don't mind taking the bus, Golden Gate Transit is great. The commute from somewhere like Novato is still long (1hr) but you can use the time to sleep or listen to audio books. Be sure to check the schedules of the express routes you care about: they end kind of early (~6, 7pm) and the non-express routes that run longer take easily twice as long.

Driving is a different story. There are three things to consider: 1) leave early, like 5ish, especially if you're north of marin 2) if you work in the financial district, the time to drive from the edge of SF to parking is substantial and 3) you can park in the financial district itself, but this will cost you around $25/day.

I suppose there's a fourth thing to consider re: driving which is that your drive home is almost guaranteed to be painful if you have to go beyond San Rafael and are not car pooling.

[barrkel]

Motorbikes / scooters seem like they'd work well. Much cheaper metering, a lot of unmetered space available, and traffic isn't a problem.