[tmh88j]

>It comes down to time.

>If he was paying for my time and I wasn't delivering then there's a problem

No, he's paying you to deliver and that's it. Your time is required to do work. Your time is worthless to them, what you produce is, however.

Robots require less time to do many tasks, and they can accomplish more of them. They're paying you for output, not time.

[jwdunne]

It's besides my core point really. In fact, it reinforces it since that's pretty much what I mean anyway.

The reason why I bring time into it is because, as I've said, if there was absolutely nothing to do, I couldn't just get up and leave mid-day. If there's nothing else to work on, stuff will be found for me and I can continue to use that time productively.

In my contract, I'm obligated to work 5 days a week, 7 hours per day. My income is worked out based on my value and the number of working days in a month. This is what I'm getting at - I'm obligated to spend that much time in the office, delivering.

If you rework what I said about outsourcing my workload so that it removes time and is replaced with delivering, it'd still make sense. Now that you mention, I prefer the sound of it:

My boss pays me to deliver. If I outsourced my workload, I could deliver more. My employer will then increase my pay.

[jiggy2011]

This depends on individual agreements between employer/employee at the end of the day and also on the nature of the job.

There are certainly situations where it is advantageous to have your employees sitting at their desks in your building. So you know where they are if some emergency situation arises or if you need to ask them some questions or even just to make the place look big/busy.

[tmh88j]

>This depends on ....and on the nature of the job.

I agree in some situations, but this was a programmer. Unless he was a manager that has to oversee others, there's no need for a mandatory appearance

>So you know where they are if some emergency situation arises

That's completely irrelevant to the situation. A company does not profit when it's down for an emergency.

[bphogan]

At least half the people I've seen on Hacker News doing startups want people to relocate to NYC or SF. Apparently lots of folks think face to face / butt in chair time is important for "team building" or something.

[jiggy2011]

There's definitely situations where you might want to have a programmer in the office (or at least "on the clock"). Perhaps your system goes down and you need it fixed ASAP, you don't want to be calling the programmer and hoping he hasn't gone to the movies and turned his phone off.

Likewise with mentoring/helping other staff, sometimes this is just far easier to do when you are physically present.

[tmh88j]

>Perhaps your system goes down and you need it fixed ASAP

So you're saying, all this person is hypothetically doing is sitting around waiting for something to break, presumably at night? You don't think the company would delegate other tasks as well?

>Likewise with mentoring/helping other staff, sometimes this is just far easier to do when you are physically present.

That's not benefiting the company in any way? How is that just "your time"

[jiggy2011]

My point is that it is often beneficial to the company to know that you will definitely be available during certain hours.

Obviously you are going to be doing other work during these hours assuming that there is something to do.

[JanezStupar]

In general yes. However in practice employers expect total dedication and focus, deliveries while _at the same time_ counting minutes.

Employers are a lot like women. They have a hard time making up their mind about what they really want. Everything being the default answer.

[JabavuAdams]

> In general yes. However in practice employers expect total dedication and focus, deliveries while _at the same time_ counting minutes.

Largely true.

> Employers are a lot like women. They have a hard time making up their mind about what they really want. Everything being the default answer.

This is silly. You're playing in to a narrative that's acceptable in some sub-cultures but that is basically ridiculous once you know enough people and try to debunk handed-down narratives.

[Fargren]

Try delivering your reply without the sexism. What you said is offensive.

[JanezStupar]

I am sorry. It is true, didn't think of it at the time of writing.

[transitionality]

Great observation! Women are often offended by accurate characterizations of their behavior.