[ars]

What does this have to do with what jamesaguilar posted?

> No. Surely, something else is broken.

Really? There are no other options you can think of? Perhaps the US is simply stricter? I quote from the article this image is from: "Still, it is the length of sentences that truly distinguishes American prison policy. Indeed, the mere number of sentences imposed here would not place the United States at the top of the incarceration lists."

So yup, the US is stricter, but it does not have more criminals, nor does it imprison more people.

> A graph showing a strange spike

There is no spike, this is the result of using a linear graph when it should have been a logarithmic one. (A very common mistake, and also frequently employed when trying to make a point without support in the data.) In this particular graph even better would be to normalize to the population level, but logarithmic is also OK. Either way, if you fix the graph you will find no spike.

This graph is better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._incarceration_rates_1... It shows an increase, but no spike.

So why the increase? And especially why has it slowed down? Read this and you shall know: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5006368

[jessaustin]

nor does it imprison more people

At any particular point in time, there is a greater percentage of the population in prison in the USA than there is in any other nation in the world. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. It is reasonable to generalize that to "the USA imprisons more people".

Nice non sequiturs with respect to graph scales and lead exposure, though! Our population hasn't been increasing exponentially: why would any population-based statistic be doing so, and why would we want to hide that fact if it were? Also, tetraethyl lead was used at some time in most countries, and indeed is still in common use in those that don't have strict environmental regulations. We still have the highest incarceration rate.

If you're brave enough to see the real explanation for these trends, take a look at this chart: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/exptyp.cfm

[BrokenPipe]

Increase ? Why does that look to me like a spike ? And are you denying either of these claims ? Because if not it seems like you are just nitpicking to me, the point of the parent is still fully correct regardless of the graph.

A. "The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population." B. "imprisons a larger percentage of its black population than South Africa did at the height of apartheid"

[ars]

No, the point of the parent is not correct.

The parent is implying that the US manipulates things so that innocent people go to prison. This is not the case. There is also no spike, but rather an increase followed by leveling off.

The US does keep people in prison longer than other nations, there is no dispute there. But it does not imprison more people than other nations. This is a subtle but very important difference.

[BrokenPipe]

The US does imprison more people than other nations according to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcerat...

And whether the US keeps people in prison longer than other nations or not, doesn't really help you case IMHO.

[ars]

Go back and read it again.

This list of not the number of different people who go to prison, it's the percentage at any given moment. So a longer sentence will inflate the numbers on this list.

[BrokenPipe]

Still, the US has more people in jail than any other country however you look at it. The fact that this is due to longer prison terms is relevant but doesn't change a thing does it ?

I wouldn't suppose that citizens of the US are more criminal than the avg citizen of the world.

It's just that you have the Prison Industry and legalized corruption (see lobbying)

[rayiner]

The distinction is quite relevant to the narrative. If your narrative is that the laws and prosecutors unfairly put people in prison that don't belong there, then you want to compare the percentage of people who ever go to prison, not the percentage if people in prison at any given time. The latter fact is relevant to a narrative that our prison terms are too long, but that's a distinct problem.

Also, we do have higher rates of violent crime than our peers. You can't ignore that.

And while its phat to blame the lobbyists, I don't think that's the entirety if the distinction. Americans are simply more retributive than other people. Look at the death penalty. It's 2012 and half the country would be up in arms if the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional. At the end of the day, prison terms are long because being "tough in crime" got a lot of votes in the 1970's and 1980's.

[RobotCaleb]

Are you implying that there's a direct correlation to people correlated vs IQ level/lead count in blood? Or is this just a case of pirates vs global warming? [0]

Thanks for the link,btw. That was fascinating.

[0] http://blog.lib.umn.edu/farre212/f11psy1001ds1415/Correlatio...

[ars]

It's not me implying it - the article I linked to did, and pretty conclusively too.

That graph you posted is messed up (yes I get it's a joke), but the spacing between dots randomly changes from 20 to 40 years. That graph actually demonstrates that there is no correlation, otherwise they would not have tried to mislead people.