[ramanujan]

One thing worthy of notice are the "combo" nature of these penalties. For example, he says Computer Fraud is pretty much the same as Wire Fraud. Yet that's a separate count, with more years/fines/numbers, which gives the prosecution a larger Sword of Damocles to hold over someone's head. Why have a separate crime if you are always going to charge both?

Kerr is probably right on the narrow point that if you decided to throw the book at someone you'd hit them with a combo like this (and they later expanded it into a 13-hit combo), and might even be right that this combo is "nothing unusual". We should wait for part two, but the multiplication of an infinite number of federal statutes in combination with prosecutorial discretion looks like the real problem here. We need to trim the sails of these prosecutors in a big way, or at least provide an external check.

For example: they're against jury trials? They want to deny people the right to a jury by depleting their cash? Well, what about a virtual jury? Have a site with all public court documents and filings, like the grand jury indictment. Look at how many years they are pursuing and include bios/faces of the accused, defense, and the prosecutors. Then have people vote up/down as to whether or not they think the punishment fits the crime. Completely non-binding of course, and conceptually separate from the question of innocence/guilt. Include lots of analytics/stats on past convictions and the like. Make money via Amazon affiliate links to books on crime, TV shows, etc. And do SEO so that people found innocent are very clearly marked as such in search result snippets.

Many crimes are salacious so with reasonable graphic design you'd have no problem getting visitors (like the Smoking Gun). The resulting scrutiny of prosecutorial decisions by thousands of people would indeed change the profession, putting a second and more scalable check on them comparable to the press.

[cones688]

Key point with regards to your opening paragraph is:

" But the ordinary practice is to charge all the possible offenses committed in the indictment, even if they overlap, and then let the jury sort them out at trial."

There is at least a passable amount of evidence for each of the charges, so naturally the prosecution will maximise the number of possible charges. This prevents the whole case falling through if of the one of the counts fails.

[talmand]

While in some cases I'm sure that is the thought, but it seems we've possibly reached the point where that way of thinking has made the whole thing a farce.

When people see that a small act like this causes such a number of charges that threatens a large portion of person's life in prison then it becomes an untrustworthy process. It gains the appearance of not being about justice but of something else. It is not good for a justice system to seem that it is more concerned over how a particular crime is committed versus what the crime is in of itself, because it creates a feeling of injustice. For example, why should a murderer be punished more severely because he chose one weapon over another?

[jrs235]

So force the prosecution to pick the appropriate charge?

(Or are the prosecutors not versed well enough in the law to know which law/crime is the correct one that was violated?)

What do you think about this: if the prosecutor thinks the big charge might not stick because the evidence is questionable then charge the lesser crime?

Or perhaps (I know many don't like this, especially the government) a separate trial for each charge. Yes, the cost to prosecute goes up (if all charges are going to be charged) and that's why they combine multiple charges into one trial. But psychologically, if the jury see that a person has been charged with 13 crimes then he must be guilty of one or some of them right? If the state had to try each charge separately and the big one didn't stick, then if the state truly thought the next one would stick do that trial.

Our legal/justice system has a flaw and that flaw was to let a few guilty men go free to safe guard and protect innocent men from going to prison.

[cones688]

So its the prosecutors job to decide what evidence is "questionable"? Words fail me. It is the job of the jury to test the evidence. The prosecutor puts forward his/her case with the laws which were broken and evidence that they think might prove they were.

In the UK we have Drunk Driving and Drug Driving as separate offences, so what happens when I crash my car and test positive for weed and booze (we have chemical tests for both - unlike America's strange obsession with an officers judgement), they both carry the same sentence, does the prosecutor just throw out one of them at random as they are similar but overlap?

"But psychologically, if the jury see that a person has been charged" that is a whole different discussion on the suitability of jury as a method of trial, for a case to get in front of a jury it must have some merits which can't be ignored. Also as a sidenote, you don't think people would form an opinion if they had already seen some guy "walk free" from an earlier trial, then ended up sitting on the jury for a similar but not trial, the jury would have their first case facts from the media which is even worse idea.

[jrs235]

How about this:

The jury is not informed of the statue(s) the defendant is being charged with having violated except the most petty one for each category that the state is charging them with. For each applicable "petty" charge the jury finds the defendant guilty of then and only then is the jury then asked and tasked with determining if the defendant violated the next offense. So we still have one trial for numerous charges but the jury is focused on only one at a time and working on them in an escalating order.

I have this feeling that juries tend to start at the top most severe charge and whittle themselves done and if enough charges were made they may psychologically believe the defendant must be guilty of something. Working from the bottom up that pressure and psychology would be absent from the jury.

So the jury is informed the State believes a man is guilty of 1st degree murder and burglary. Judge tasks the jury with determining if the man broke into someones home, if yes, then the man took something of $xxx in value which determines the level of the burglary charge for sentencing purpuses. Next the judges asks about the killing charges, starting with manslaughter. Jury believes that defendant did in fact unlawfully kill another man. Then judge instructs them to determine if defendant premeditated the murder, etc... on up from manslaughter to 3rd degree homicide, 2nd degree homicide, first degree...

I realize that some laws may need to be rewritten to make this progressive application work.

EDIT: What I'm trying to say or do is: Don't provide biasing information ahead of time. Just like when doing software estimates you don't want a manager going to the dev team saying: hey we NEED these features can you give us an estimate, and oh we need it by the end of the month.

[jrs235]

It may take longer for the jury to deliberate the entire case in this manner but it would prevent the "well the state thinks this man committed 40 crimes... he's got to be guilty of one so which one(s) should we pick" problem.

[fusiongyro]

How is a separate trial for each charge different from double jeopardy? Part of the point of having the prosecutor bundle together all the possible charges is so there can be a single trial in which the truth comes out. How are you going to "lock in" the possible set of charges early on in such a way to prevent the prosecution from just digging up one more offense at the end of every trial ensuring the defendant never gets to go on with his/her life?

This tragedy is really bringing out the propensity of us Americans to try and find someone to blame for every bad thing that happens so we can prevent bad things from happening again. Unfortunately, there's a certain level of tragedy in this world that is just random and unavoidable. The hang-wringing isn't doing Aaron or his causes any good, it's just creating new victims and wasting a lot of time.

[danielweber]

so there can be a single trial in which the truth comes out.

As a point of order, since trials are incredibly stressful and expensive for the accused, society isn't supposed to use them for "the truth to come out" or "to find out what happened."

The trial is where the state -- having decided internally that a person is guilty and must be punished -- goes to prove its case to a jury of the accused's peers, in an orderly courtroom where only pertinent evidence is allowed.

This probably backs up your point even more -- having multiple trials for the same thing is horrible for the accused.

[talmand]

If each charge is considered a different crime then double jeopardy wouldn't apply. Also, in the US at least, the justice system isn't about getting to the truth. It's about assigning blame for an act that is considered against the law. If you are charged with a crime then the prosecutor will prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law and do their best to win by getting a conviction. The prosecutor will not necessarily go out of their way to prove your innocence by attempting to get to the truth. Both sides present their case and the jury, or maybe the judge, make a decision based on what they've been presented, regardless of what the truth might be.

[AnthonyMouse]

>Or perhaps (I know many don't like this, especially the government) a separate trial for each charge.

This is a very bad idea. If the prosecutor can charge 13 crimes that are all substantially the same thing, they get 13 bites at the apple to try to convict you. I imagine it may also violate double jeopardy when the underlying actions for the crimes charged overlap, but I am not a lawyer.

[loceng]

Unfortunately this also increases the load on the accused and the costs it will take to defend, and increase the uncertainty of the whole situation.