[EuroCoder]

“It is no accident that Silicon Valley is in America, and not France, or Germany, or England, or Japan,” Graham wrote. “In those countries, people color inside the lines.”

That may be true. But those countries also don't torture people, inprison people without charge, or start senseless wars. The US may make people richer, but it also has the highest proportion of its population in jail, compared to all other countries in the world. The US has a lot to learn from Europe.

[GiraffeNecktie]

Seriously? Do you actually believe that France, Germany, England and Japan have not tortured people, imprisoned people without charge, or (gasp) started senseless wars?

ROTFL

[EuroCoder]

Good point, but what I meant is in the current era, after WWII. Since WWII the US has been the leader among western countries in torture and senseless wars.

[GiraffeNecktie]

I think you'd have to narrow it further than WWII. France was involved in colonial wars in Indochina and Algeria (the latter involved lots and lots of torture). England has participated in most of the US adventures and a few of their own (Suez, Northern Ireland, Falklands). Japan and Germany have kept their noses clean since WWII but that's partly a side effect of the complete asskicking they received in the war, rather than some innate cultural appreciation of peace and human rights. Up until recently France was conducting nuclear tests in the Pacific and their agents were apparently involved in the sinking of a protest ship in New Zealand.

England and Germany have much greater limitations on free speech than does the United States.

[tripzilch]

> > “It is no accident that Silicon Valley is in America, and not France, or Germany, or England, or Japan,” Graham wrote. “In those countries, people color inside the lines.” > That may be true.

Except that it isn't.

> But those countries also don't torture people, inprison people without charge, or start senseless wars.

And neither is this.

I don't know which part of the EU you're from, but we've got a bit of a longer history to have made all those mistakes that you name, and so we've made much more of them. Colonialism comes to mind. Or if you're looking for something more recent, the secret (US) prisons in Poland and other East-European countries. And what they needed those custom-built metal cages for.

Then there's Sweden, throwing that TPB guy into solitary confinement for 2 months, before even officially charging him. Did not result in suicide, but you can be certain psychological damage has been done and that guy will never be the same.

See while you are not wrong about the atrocities committed by the US both inside and outside their borders, it's really really really important to first be aware of the horrible things that are being done at home, before you point your finger at an easy target on the other side of an ocean. Because those are the ones you have the best chance of affecting real change upon, the far away ones you can just yell about, or at best send money/aid or something.

(and before anyone points out possible hypocrisy, I'm very aware that I've probably fallen for this same trap in some of my earlier comments on HN. It's such an easy trap to fall for, that it therefore bears pointing out anyhow! I suppose it's similar to what I tell the kids I teach, "I don't care who started it, you both should cut it out!" ;-) ... a lesson that is really hard to make stick. we've got a built-in mental circuit for "fairness" and "guilt", and in situations like these, it really gets in the way of rationality and "doing right". Personally I find compassion (metta) meditation to help tremendously ... but I digress, sorry)

[randomafrican]

England and France ? Lol