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by cmccabe 4904 days ago
If "Perl is a dead end" (his words, not mine), then why not switch to another similar language like Python or Ruby?

I guess I don't understand why this guy wants to create yet another programming language. He spends his entire slide deck complaining about how bad Perl is, without ever discussing the obvious possibility of... just using another language. Is there anything good about Perl 5 that other languages haven't already copied? If there is, what is it? I am not trying to be facetious here-- just curious.
2 comments
draegtun 4903 days ago
> If "Perl is a dead end" (his words, not mine), then why not switch to another similar language like Python or Ruby?

Because a lot of the points given also apply to Python & Ruby.

>I guess I don't understand why this guy wants to create yet another programming language.

He isn't. It looks like he's creating an improved / cleaned-up perl5 running on a new VM. Think of it as perl6 if the perl6 moniker hadn't already been taken!

EDIT - Hopefully clearer analogy... the project is a mixture of python2 -> python3 (language cleanup) + MRI -> YARV (new compiler & VM).

> Is there anything good about Perl 5 that other languages haven't already copied? If there is, what is it?

The author of the talk (Stevan Little) is the creator of Moose (http://moose.perl.org). I think what he maybe striving for is a Moose implemented on a modern future proofed VM (full threading/multiprocessing, etc).

The question you may want to ask is why? By sounds of this talk it appears that his p5-mop proposal/work (https://github.com/stevan/p5-mop), which was originally mooted for perl 5.16, as probably been blocked by the Perl core team (p5p). It's a shame if that is what's happened :(

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brunov 4903 days ago
> The question you may want to ask is why? By sounds of this talk it appears that his p5-mop proposal/work (https://github.com/stevan/p5-mop), which was originally mooted for perl 5.16, as probably been blocked by the Perl core team (p5p). It's a shame if that is what's happened :(

That's what he hints at in one of the slides. I'd like to know what exactly happened though, I was interested in that project.

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draegtun 4903 days ago
Same here.. I'd definitely like to buy Stevan a beer to find out whats happened.

In meantime I raise my glass (again [1]) for all his great work on Moose and hope that p5-mop does make it into Perl core and/or he manages to make Moe a success.

[1] - http://stevan-little.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/moose-100-is-rel...

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cmccabe 4903 days ago
Because a lot of the points given also apply to Python & Ruby.

Like what, exactly? He even has a slide which says this about Node.js: "there is no problem." If there is no problem, then what is he trying to solve by creating a new language? I am confused.

The author of the talk (Stevan Little) is the creator of Moose (http://moose.perl.org). I think what he maybe striving for is a Moose implemented on a modern future proofed VM (full threading/multiprocessing, etc).

Moose is cool and all, but it basically just brings Perl up to the same level of functionality that other languages like Python and Ruby have right out of the box. Using the JVM seems like a particularly unfortunate choice since it has such a long start-up time and traditionally Perl scripts were for quick and dirty jobs.

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draegtun 4903 days ago
>Like what, exactly?...

Threading / Multicore processing. This is the 800 pound gorilla sitting in all programming language camps.

>Moose is cool and all, but it basically just brings Perl up to the same level of functionality that other languages like Python and Ruby

Nope... Moose brings Perl up to the CLOS (Lisp) level of OO which is beyond what you get with Python & Ruby.

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chromatic 4903 days ago
Moose is cool and all, but it basically just brings Perl up to the same level of functionality that other languages like Python and Ruby have right out of the box.

Python and Ruby have parametric roles/traits? Typed attributes with coercions?

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codewright 4904 days ago
Slides talk, numbers walk.

It's not fat Perl hackers and CGI weenies anymore, but rather Python dev-ops wahoos and Rails coders.

There are all kinds of wonderful toys old and new that I'd love to be using. I just don't have a practical reason to call upon them.

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