[jeremymims]

Looks like Steve Heymann has a history of this:

"The case was picked up by Assistant U.S. Attorney Steve Heymann in Boston, the cybercrime prosecutor who won a record 20-year prison stretch for TJX hacker Albert Gonzalez. Heymann indicted Aaron on 13 counts of wire fraud, computer intrusion and reckless damage. The case has been wending through pre-trial motions for 18 months, and was set for jury trial on April 1." [1]

Appears that Jonathan James and Aaron Swartz both had the same prosecutor after them...

[1] http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/01/aaron-swartz/

[_delirium]

Not a whole lot of information available about Heymann, but what little I can find doesn't make me like him more. Here's something that turned up from 1996, where he tried to get Harvard to authorize warrantless surveillance:

Stephen Heymann, deputy chief of the criminal division in the U.S. attorney's office in Boston, wanted Harvard to put an electronic banner on its intranet telling users they were being monitored. The banner, implying consent, would let law enforcement do the data tap without having to get a court order.

From the sidebar ("case in point") here: http://books.google.com/books?id=2xcEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA65

edit: He also apparently wrote a law-review article in 1997 entitled "Legislating Computer Crime", which might give a more accurate and perhaps nuanced account of his views on the subject. I'd link it, but it's paywalled.

[Evbn]

Someone please download it and repost.

[BCM43]

http://www.anonpaste.me/anonpaste2/index.php?b18e0b52166f3c1...

In memory of Swartz.

[doktrin]

> "who won a record 20-year sentence"

I know this is common verbiage, but it's frankly sickening. Do they view their targets as people, or are they merely a collection of scalps?

[rwmj]

Gonzalez stole real money, I'm sure causing many people a great deal of trouble and distress. He said in chat logs that he aimed to steal $15 million and retire. It's really not that much different from pickpocketing or bank robbery, except on a much larger scale, and I'm quite happy if pickpockets, bank robbers, insurance scammers, and other criminals get serious time.

This is quite different from Aaron Swartz who wrote a slightly more advanced recursive 'wget'/'curl' to download something he already had access to.

[doktrin]

Oh, I'm certainly not arguing Gonzalez should not have been prosecuted.

What I am reacting to quite specifically is the notion that "winning" a higher sentence is somehow a goal in and of itself.

Having worked quite closely with the legal community over the last half decade, I have to say that the mercenary attitude many hold continues to jar me.

[rm999]

The US uses an adversary law system, where a side 'wins'. It's basically a competition rather than an organized attempt at finding a 'truth'. As twisted as it is to frame a legal system as a form of combat, it usually ends up being pretty fair.

>Most legal experts agree that, in the long run, the adversary system results in societal benefits that outweigh its inherent shortcomings. By allowing all sides of a controversy to be heard, the system protects against abuse of power, and forces those with the most at stake to focus on the issues in dispute.

(from http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adversary+Syst...)

[linuxhansl]

Punishment is unfortunately needed for deterrence. But 20 years? Does anybody here have any grasp about how long 20 years are in prison?

Where I'm from the maximum sentence is 15 years in prison.

[jwdunne]

Yes, that stood out to me too. There are people in the UKwjo have been released or sentenced much shorter terms for FAR more heinous crimes. We're talking juveniles who have tortured and killed infants, people who have beaten children to death, people who raped multiple women and much more.

I know he stole a lot of money but this is compared to people who have destroyed lives, many of whom enjoyed doing so.

[cgag]

I've never really understood why people want such long prison sentences. Is that guy going to be any more reformed after 20 years than 5?

[pothibo]

"Gonzalez stole real money, I'm sure causing many people a great deal of trouble and distress."

I don't think I'll ever agree with this. I have seen this argument brought up times and times again and every time I feel that we miss the point.

Stealing money is bad, yes. Does it deserve a similar amount of time as someone who committed a murder?

Also, nowadays, people who steal money are stealing money from businesses that are protected against those very thieves (Banks, insurances, big commerces). So basically, it's better morally to steal from a bank/insurance than it is to pickpocket since pickpocketing has a direct impact on a single person.

Don't you guys have enough people in jail already?

EDIT: corrected amount of time in comparison to murder.

[cookiecaper]

Most people who murder get sentences of 30+ years, many get life and some get death.

I agree that 20 years is excessive for Gonzales, but it's not the same as (many) murderers.

[rprasad]

It depends. Did Gonzalez's actions result in anyone committing suicide, or any divorces or families breaking up?

If it did, then it definitely deserves as long a sentence as murder. Indeed, an (attempted) financial crime of this magnitude is frequently worse than murder since it (potentially) has similarly devasting effects on a much wider set of victims.

[afterburner]

Pickpocketing, really? You want pickpocketing to get the same "serious time" as bank robbery?

[7f0415f3]

Pickpockets should get far more time than bank robbers, per proportional harm to the victim, imo

[rwmj]

If you were somehow able to pickpocket thousands of people en masse, aiming to make $15 million out of all that distress, then yes, I'd like you to go to prison.

[zura]

Yes, but instead of 20 years, couple of months or a year could help with changing mind.

[zura]

Yes, but even for the real money, I think it is too much.

For comparison, this guy[1] shot 77 people, but he was sentenced only "21 years and a minimum of 10 years" and he will spend this period in a luxury prison of Norway.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

[rprasad]

Europe's sentencing laws are not comparable to U.S. sentencing laws.

In the U.S., that same crime would have resulted in a minimum of life in prison, and possibly would have resulted in the death penalty.

[Evbn]

Aaron didn't have access, that is why he broke into the MIT physical network.

[madaxe]

Yes. I know a few dozen criminal barristers in the UK.

They measure their success purely in terms of won cases, unsurprisingly - if you go to certain bars around the temples in London, you will overhear conversations along the lines of "got this guy sent down for 20 years today, don't know if he did it, but who gives a shit, and I'll be a QC in 5 years! Crack open the champagne!". They're not even in it for the money, as the CPS pays abysmally. They'd rather defend, as that pays - and again, on that side of the table, they have absolutely no interest in the innocence or guilt of their client, just in avoiding a conviction.

It's purely mercenary, and their stance is that it's just business as usual and impartiality - but it's a business that can cost innocent people their lives, and let the guilty walk free.

I believe your prosecutors in the US are rather better paid, which sets the incentives for conviction roughly on a par with acquittal.

[rprasad]

Generally, the best prosecutors (in the sense of securing convictions) view their targets as trophies to be collected.

This is part of what makes them so "good"--by objectifying the target, they are better able to think purely strategically about how to secure a conviction.

[super42]

If you guys are interested in Heymann being fired, please sign the petition.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/fire-assistant-us-...