[potatolicious]

Nobody has denied the height bias. We all admit it exists. The difference is that we treat it as a handicap, and not even a particularly game-ending one. You're the one falling upon absolutes.

In reality being short is like having 9 fingers. You will never out-type a 10-fingered person, but you can type plenty fast.

[singular]

I read the grandparent as suggesting that it was attitude rather than a real factor. I suggest that he was denying the bias, or at least the severity of it.

My experience has been that it's a huge factor. What frustrates me about this kind of response is that I have worked very hard, lost > 55lb in weight, asked women out in real life, ~150 online, etc. with a positive attitude and got nothing in return, and yet suggestions like that suggest it's all my fault and I'm simply afraid of admitting failure.

I wish I could believe there were things I could do to overcome this, but I don't. I have friends who are short yet a little bit taller than me who are perfectly positive yet experience exactly the same thing. It doesn't bode well - at what point do you think 'this handicap is just too much'?

I work for a startup by the way, so this is not an attitude I take to everything in life :-) however, if all evidence points one way, wouldn't it be mad to somehow have faith that the fact isn't so?

[potatolicious]

But the fact is that it really is not as severe as you seem to think.

Let me put it this way: I'm willing to bet that, whatever deficiencies you have, I have worse. I'm an overweight, short-ish, East Asian, culturally western, engineer, dating in NYC. The only way to get it worse than me is to be all of the above, except Black or Latino. According to popular perception of my demographic I am a creepy, misogynistic, effeminate loser whose redeeming quality is mathematics.

My demographic is among the least replied-to on OKCupid, according to OKTrends.

But yet I do ok for myself. I've gone on dates with about a dozen people in the last year, all of which originated online.

This isn't about which one of us has it worse. It's about the fact that all handicaps in the dating arena are correctable to a large degree. You may never be a Brad Pitt, but you sure as hell can have a good time.

No doubt you've tried to improve your situation. If you aren't having luck with it, may I suggest that it's because you're not doing the right things, rather than you being a hopelessly lost cause? It is after all not about working hard, and all about working smart.

BTW, if you are in a place where you have serious self esteem problems re:dating, dont't go online. Online dating is an extremely low yield, spammy game where everyone (both female and male) are 10x pickier than they are IRL. Until you're in a place where you can take hundreds of rejections in a row without hitting your ego, keep it IRL.

[dennisgorelik]

You are dating in NYC - that's an advantage for a man. Bay Area would be significantly worse.

Of course crippled person would be in even worse position.

I agree with your overall point though.

[potatolicious]

I lived in SF until a few months ago. My dating performance there was only marginally worse than NYC.

NYC has more females than males, but I'm also not in finance, nor do I ascribe to the young professional set. The typical NYC "scene" does me no favors.

But yes, a severely handicapped person would probably have it much worse.