[hosh]

If you feel the essay is deep and wise, then you got something out of it.

I suggest examining how the concept of God bothers you in the essay; I'm not saying this to say you don't get it or that you are wrong. That disturbing feeling is the Jungnian shadow speaking when one is trying to reject something. Unconditional love is unconditional: even the concepts and feelings that disturb you.

Though ... if it doesn't bother you, then there's nothing further to say, eh?

Anyways, good luck, man.

[leibniz]

Good analysis. I think what maybe bothered me is that Paul mentions mindfulness, being present in the moment, and so on. I personally struggle to explain these concepts to an atheist friend of mine who mixes up these important aspects of everyday being with religious world views. They are separate, and I love to see such elegant essays that do not blend the two dimensions, mindfulness and faith (of any specific or abstract sort).

[hosh]

A friend ... hmmm.

I can tell you that, if you meditate (mindfully) long enough, you will trip out. Whether what you see while tripping out is something you want to call gods, or God, that is up to each individual. The religions you encountered as a child will frame much of the experiences you have during the trip, whether you want that or not.

There is a big difference between talking about being mindful, and practicing mindfulness. People like talking about it for a variety of reasons, and none of that helps with practice. Being mindful, you are probing into the fundamental nature of things: things come and go, they don't satisfy, and they are not you.

Things come and go: that includes any of the heavenly and angelic beings you might encounter while tripping out meditating. Easy to do if you don't want to believe their realness in the first place. However, that also includes any fears and aversions you might have about religion.

So ... the religious and mindfulness are not really separate. I've written some cheat-sheets and minor how-tos on how to practice mindfulness while avoiding bringing in religion. Because I know a lot of people have hangups that trigger this. (And I want to eat :-)). But essentially: if you are religious, then the attachment you let go is that of slavish worship; if you are not religious, then the attachment is in the aversion to anything smacking of religion. Either way, your actions and thoughts are being controlled by things that happen in the early childhood, ... that's not really being mindful ...

I don't know how to talk about the "first flowering" -- that first time you feel unconditional love while meditating -- without bringing in talk about the wisdom traditions. At best, I say, "practice this, and see for yourself." Usually it is, "practice this so you can feel calmer and be more effective living your life." And if they start blissing, well, let them be even then. They can come to their own conclusions.

I don't know if that helps you talk with your friend or not. I think it will come out better in your own words anyways :-D

@leibniz sound interesting, how about taking this privately by email?