[ElProlactin]

Citing the 18th Amendment, which not only failed to stop the sale of alcoholic beverages but led to the creation of a massive black market, as a rebuttal to the fact that America is a highly individualistic culture in which people are largely considered responsible for their inability to regulate their own behavior, is very strange.

[bluGill]

The 18th amendment proves that were are not that individualistic. If we were we never would have passed it.

The 18th amendment didn't stop the sale of alcohol, but it greatly reduced those sales. It did lead to a black market, but it overall did succeed in the aims of the supporters even if it wasn't perfect. Of course the supporters were not as numerous as they thought they were and so it was rolled back.

[ElProlactin]

> The 18th amendment proves that were are not that individualistic.

And did the 13th Amendment prove that there was no racism in America? Does the 2nd Amendment prove that all Americans love guns?

The US is one of the most individualistic societies in the world. There is a significant amount of qualitative and quantitative research about this. Hofstede's cultural dimensions is probably the most popular "scoring" of this, but it's hardly the only reference.

There's a reason the idea of "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" originated in the US. If you've spent any time living abroad, especially in more collectivist societies (like those in Asia), you'd know how farcical it is to hold up the 18th Amendment as proof the US is not individualistic.

[bluGill]

Most individualist yes. However it isn't perfect 100%

[ElProlactin]

So then you're arguing that "the US isn't that individualistic, as compared to a society that doesn't exist."

[bluGill]

The original argument was the USA is that society that we have now agreed doesn't exist.

[ElProlactin]

Nothing in your comments refutes what I wrote:

> American culture is deeply individualistic. From a cultural perspective, a person who fails in their recovery from addiction is seen, ultimately, as being responsible for their failure. They'd typically be criticized for being weak and undisciplined, even if the fake kindness of American culture prevents most people from saying that out loud.

If you want a stunning, quantitative example, here you go:

https://americanhealth.jhu.edu/news/guiding-principles-addre...

> Many Americans view poor individual choices/lack of discipline as the cause of opioid addiction:

> 78% of Americans believe people who are addicted to prescription opioids are, themselves, to blame for the problem.

> 72% believe that people addicted to prescription opioids lack self-discipline.

This is despite the fact that the opioid epidemic was driven by pharma companies employing aggressive marketing and false safety claims to get doctors to overprescribe painkillers.

https://alcoholstudies.rutgers.edu/the-four-sentence-letter-...

And yet large numbers of Americans (a significant majority according to the above) still blame opioid addiction on the individuals.

You can see the same general philosophy applied to issues like poverty and homelessness.

https://www.ap.org/news-highlights/spotlights/2025/most-us-a...

[brewdad]

The US is a highly individualist society in which groups of individuals love to tell those outside their group what they can and cannot do.