[lII1lIlI11ll]

> making payments for non-tracking illegal

This keeps surfacing in discussions about tracking. I'm wondering how do you propose for b2c software companies to make money if they can't either properly advertise or require you to pay to opt-out? Is this just an entitled leftie thing ("Elon Musk should pay for my Instagram!") or is there a genuine though-out plan for another reasonable business model?

[fwlr]

I would have them make money by selling me products, rather than selling me as a product.

[lII1lIlI11ll]

How is "Payed subscriptions tier without tracking" not a product? Isn't it exactly what Instagram offers in Europe?

[troupo]

> I'm wondering how do you propose for b2c software companies to make money if they can't either properly advertise

Advertising does not require invasive and pervasive tracking. There's no world in which a b2c company needs my precise geo location for 12 years: https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1817122117093056541

Why the hell are people defending 24/7 monitoring at scale that would make even Stasi or Stalin pause and think "are we going too far?"? 1984 wasn't an instruction manual.

[lII1lIlI11ll]

> Advertising does not require invasive and pervasive tracking.

Why are you so opposed to pay for a tier without tracking? I'm still not following.

> Why the hell are people defending 24/7 monitoring at scale that would make even Stasi or Stalin pause and think "are we going too far?"? 1984 wasn't an instruction manual.

Stasi or KGB weren't "opt in" for their citizens while social networks definitely are. For example, Twitter won't allow me to access the images in the post you linked because I deleted my account as soon as Musk completely enshittified it and I'm doing just fine without it.

[troupo]

> Why are you so opposed to pay for a tier without tracking? I'm still not following.

Because advertising does not require invasive and pervasive tracking.

The better question is: why are you so happy defending 24/7 surveillance of everything you do?

> Stasi or KGB weren't "opt in" for their citizens

What you're proposing isn't opt in either. You're proposing "pervasive and invasive tracking, or pay an arbitrary sum randomly defined by the tracking industry". That is, literally pay for access to internet without tracking, or else. All based on a completely unproven assumption that tracking is required for ads to function. It's not.

> while social networks definitely are.

Indeed. Because tracking is happening only on social networks.

> For example, Twitter won't allow me to access the images

Here's a direct link. And no, this pop up wasn't on an "opt out social network". It was on a random site (can't remember now which one): https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTe23o5WwAACyNJ?format=png&name=...

[lII1lIlI11ll]

> Because advertising does not require invasive and pervasive tracking.

Okay, so just ignore tracking-advertisement supported option and sign up for payed account. What is your issue with this again?

> What you're proposing isn't opt in either. You're proposing "pervasive and invasive tracking, or pay an arbitrary sum randomly defined by the tracking industry". That is, literally pay for access to internet without tracking, or else.

This is incorrect. GDPR already forbids tracking without consent, so services you didn't sign up for (the whole internet) can't legally track you. Obviously, then everything would cost you actual money not just social networks.

> Here's a direct link. And no, this pop up wasn't on an "opt out social network". It was on a random site (can't remember now which one): https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTe23o5WwAACyNJ?format=png&name=...

This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. GDPR already forbids random sites and ad networks from tracking you without your explicit consent.

[troupo]

> Okay, so just ignore tracking-advertisement supported option and sign up for payed account. What is your issue with this again?

Somehow the only option you propose and defend is: "pay, or be tracked".

Why would I want a world where the only way not to be tracked is to pay?

Moreover, your whole premise is based on the completely unsubstantiated claim that tracking is required for advertisment and for the poor hapless b2c companies.

> This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. GDPR already forbids random sites and ad networks from tracking you without your explicit consent.

You're literally saying that in your vision you are either tracked, or have to pay for access.

[lII1lIlI11ll]

Besides paying or accepting being tracked you also have the option of not using web services that require that. Some things you can self-host (email, Mastodon instance, etc), others are sponsored (HN). I still don't get why you expect to dictate to businesses how to price their products - voting with your wallet has always been the way to express your disagreement, not "EU mAkE eViL Zuck serVE mE fOr fRee!!!11".

[DemocracyFTW2]

> entitled leftie thing ("Elon Musk should pay for my Instagram!")

At least ever since Musk syphoned billions of dollars from the government, then illegally intervened in elections at home and abroad, then went on to destroy USAID, then went after pension funds I believe it would be just fair if he was made to pay personally for some expenses of private people, yes. You don't have to be particularly left to find that.