[benrutter]

As a UK citizen, it's interesting to think back to Barack Obama's attempt to convince the country not to vote for Brexit (saying the UK would "go to the back of the line" for future trade deal negotiations).

I think the real difference now, isn't so much that the US is applying more pressure on european politics, but that it's politics is so much further away from most european countries than even five years ago.

The importance of trading blocks (as in Obama's example) is a pretty standard view. The support for antidemocratic strongmen (with Vance's support of Orban) is a lot less, even now.

[flohofwoe]

> with Vance's support of Orban

Tbh, if that always plays out like it did in this case I'm all for US interference in EU elections ;)

[piva00]

Vance's support of Orbán; Musk's support of Reform, AfD, and other far-right parties across Europe; Thiel's shadow interference through his "gatherings" with other countries' elites while being explicitly anti-democracy. Many other oligarchs are likely involved with different levels of visibility and effort for this push, I wouldn't be surprised if Zuck is part of it by providing the machinery of social media while keeping a safe distance from the more overt acts.

It's a whole concerted effort by many figures in the US political landscape (in this I include moneyed elites) to tear down democratic pillars of European countries.

The USA already had massive issues with corporate power in politics, the Trump admin just made the merge of state and corporate interests even deeper and more overt. The pressure has only been building up the past 10 years, the Biden years were a short respite of a movement ongoing for longer.

Unfortunately we will only see how this ship continues to sail after the US's midterms, it will be the defining moment to see if American society can find ways to right the ship or if it's going to be cement the plunge into the abyss...

[soco]

Also, recent: "Trump administration to fund Maga-aligned projects in Europe as he reorders US aid, FT reports" https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/trump-adminis...

[locknitpicker]

> As a UK citizen, it's interesting to think back to Barack Obama's attempt to convince the country not to vote for Brexit (saying the UK would "go to the back of the line" for future trade deal negotiations).

As an European citizen, the whole Brexit thing was rather obviously fueled by a massive state-sponsored disinformation campaign aimed at destabilizing the UK in particular and the EU in general.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20...

No wonder that anyone not aligned with said state actors would voice concerns about the whole sad state of affairs.

[davidguetta]

"good interference" vs "bad interference"

this is a ludicrous argument in general. having people, even in power, give their opinion like musk or obama is not "interference"

stop trying censoring opinions you don't like.

if it's through funding or other way of intereferece like ngo, just ban it yes

[stranded22]

Musk ACTIVELY attacks through social media the governments in power and actively supports far right parties (through both appearances and money).

That’s a hell of a difference to ‘you’ll be at the back of the queue’ - which was a stated fact.

[stranded22]

Was it to convince though? He stated a fact.

And no, the real difference now is that the USA oligarchs are activity trying to get far right parties in power.

[locknitpicker]

> I think the real difference now, isn't so much that the US is applying more pressure on european politics, but that it's politics is so much further away from most european countries than even five years ago.

No,the difference is not in mere political misalignments.

You have both US governments and US oligarchs openly pushing and directly promoting fascist and extremist political parties, while at the same time threatening with annexation and military interventions.

[benrutter]

> You have both US governments and US oligarchs openly pushing and directly promoting fascist and extremist political parties, while at the same time threatening with annexation and military interventions.

I think the first part of this is political alignment right? What are "fascist and extremist political parties" is not politics with a very different alignment?

I think your second point is a really good one though, the Barack Obama and J D Vance examples are both soft power usage. But in the case of Vance, it comes alongside a state using military force to bully its way through issues, that's a very significant context difference I didn't really acknowledge earlier.

[locknitpicker]

> I think the first part of this is political alignment right?

No, no it's not a mere misalignment. Opposing fascism supported on dehumanizing policies such as racial supremacy is not a mere difference in opinion, as is pushes to invade and annex other countries.

WW2 wasn't fought because people happened to disagree. The problem with Nazi Germany and imperial Japan was not a whimsical difference of opinion. Let's not pretend that the US is any different.

[benrutter]

> Opposing fascism supported on dehumanizing policies such as racial supremacy is not a mere difference in opinion, as is pushes to invade and annex other countries.

I'm not sure, I'd say two things:

- I think "mere difference of opinion" suggests disagreements can't be on serious issues, as if there's something trivial about "x things racism is acceptable a y doesn't". I don't know that I'd agree? Differences in opinion can be on major issues and are important. - Pushing to invade and annex countries is a real thing, which I said in my comment above, I don't know that interferences like Vance in Hungary are pushing to invade countries though? Other things the US doss might be, but I'm not sure it comes into play here?

[locknitpicker]

> Differences in opinion can be on major issues and are important.

Invading Greenland, annexing Canada, and helping Russia invade half a dozen neighboring nations while waging economic war on Europe in the form of tariffs is far from mere "differences of opinion".