[krapp]

>It's in the context of describing false prophets? It makes sense.

I see no evidence from the text that false prophets are being described. False prophets don't cast out demons and do miracles. I know the prior verse talks about false prophets (and do please give me a definition for that which doesn't encompass most Christians) but it's just an assumption on your part that this verse is exclusively talking about false prophets. False prophets don't tend to do miracles, cast out demons, and witness. These are people who seem to put in more effort than most, and are sincere in their belief.

>I was just looking for your reference about Jesus coming back to kill all the christians. Unfair to spout these types of things without some sort of basis right?

I never said Jesus was coming back to kill all the Christians, I said Jesus was coming back to kill most Christians and all of everyone else.

And that is simply and unambiguously the canon. The only point that can be argued is how many Christians are a part of the body count. It certainly isn't zero.

[arkey]

> These are people who seem to put in more effort than most, and are sincere in their belief.

No, check this out:

"have WE not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"

They are not sincere in their belief. Real Christians believe and rely in Christ and His work alone. The people this verse refers to are to the end clinging to their own merit and trying to earn their salvation through their own works rather than rely on Christ's perfect work on the cross.

Saved by Grace alone through Faith alone.

[Johanx64]

> Real Christians believe and rely in Christ and His work alone. The people this verse refers to are to the end *clinging to their own merit and trying to earn their salvation through their own works* rather than rely on Christ's perfect work on the cross.

Man, this is bloody convenient innit.

"Yo, amma big piece of shit, but lets be real here, ain't gonna self correct that shit by my own merit and by doing good work!

Hell nah!

All I have to do is nothing, uh, i mean, believe in Santa for he died on the cross. That's all!"

[ammojamo]

I understand the point you're making, but the criticism underlying this childish caricature of the Christian faith is discussed extensively in the Bible in books such as Romans and James.

[arkey]

As someone else mentioned, you can read the book of Romans or the epistle of James to find out by yourself why this idea is absurd.

But simplified, say you have a spouse who you dearly love. And say you found out that said spouse would forgive and get over any nasty thing you did to them.

Would that mean that you'd start being evil to them just because you can?

Or would that be yet another reason to try to live up to what such a spouse deserves?

edit: Actually, I think I misunderstood your issue with what I said. To clarify, a Christian will strive to do good and be better, but knowing that we'd never be able to be good enough, and that we can only be/do good through Christ, so we never deserve or earn our salvation (hence Grace), but we put our hope in Christ (hence Faith).

[Johanx64]

Yes, yes, Christians will "strive" to do better, but never really have try that hard, because you know, it's never gonna be "good enough" anyway, therefore accept that you will do "sometimes-woops" fucked up things, and then just ask for forgiveness (but never actually do anything).

The incentive structure is set up to produce bad people.

Kind of reminds of the sight where MMA fighters brutally mash some dudes head in, and then afterwards starts praising the Lord and that only through Lord he has gotten where he is. Weirdest shit ever, and yet it's not uncommon to see it.

Imagine you have two neighboors - neighboor A and neighboor B. As they walk past you, they say hello and smile. But other than that they don't leave their house very much.

One of the neighboors prays for the humanity and wishes the best to everyone all the time.

The other neighboor fantasizes about torturing people and animals.

Now tell me, which one is neighboor A and which one is neighboor B?

That's right, you can't tell, because from any observable thing in the world, they are virtually equivalent, A is as good and as bad as B. Their inaction in the real world are virtually equivalent.

The only way you can tell who's "good" and "bad" is only and only through actions and results of their actions. Not their thoughts, best intentions or prayers. Only through their actions and results of said actions.

If they represent themselves through inaction, they are virtually equivalent - equally as bad.

Like if somebody steals your bike? Do you want (a) their forgiveness ("i wont steal again I promise") or (b) your bike back + due compensation for caused distress?

Thus - if you do and have done bad things - and you don't make up for them via direct sustained remedial action, but mere prayer and "asking for forgiveness", you're a piece of shit that deserves to burn in the deepest depths of hell.

For better or worse, this applies to so many so called "Christians".

[arkey]

You're right in plenty of what you're saying, that's why I'd recommend you reading Romans and James in the Bible.

But stuff like "but never really have try that hard" and "(but never actually do anything)" are your own assumptions and silly ones at that, you're putting too many people in the same bucket.

> If they represent themselves through inaction, they are virtually equivalent - equally as bad.

In regards to Neighbours A nd B, you're also right, but that's a bad scenario. Christians should thrive to lead a life that reflects the goodness of God and the grace they have received.

Some are rubbish at it, some are better and do amazing things. Same for non-Christian people, mind you.

But ultimately it comes down to: Christ died on the cross to pay for your sins. Are you going to accept that, repent, and follow Him? or are you going to disregard it?

The first option, if done from the heart, WILL bear good fruit.

[Johanx64]

> Same for non-Christian people, mind you.

Yes, but with Christians there's always some sort of thick-layer of self-serving dishonesty on top of it all.

Imagine a person goes out of his way and really helps you out in a tough situation, would you rather have it:

1. Be a person who does it out of his own volition - out of his own will and mind decided to do that - because that's the right thing to do!

2. Be a person who did it, because a book told him to do so - under a threat of violence no less (being tortured in hot lava!)

I'd always take (1) over somebody who's operating held at gunpoint (2) - threatened with torture for misbehaving.

> But ultimately it comes down to: Christ died on the cross to pay for your sins. Are you going to accept that, repent, and follow Him? or are you going to disregard it?

This is not a free choice! This is thinly veiled threat of violence!

And what happens if I "disregard it" (It being what exactly? Also - what sins?)?

Ah, yes, you get tortured in lake of fire!

The whole thing is just layers and layers of manipulative dishonesty stacked on top of each other.

[Theodores]

As one miracle is solved, another is opened.

I had the guy rocking up in his truck to spend a day doing carpentry for our AI overlords, and could not see the magic wand.

So now we have him solving the world's problems by killing everyone, apart from a few good people, so have we moved on from a magic wand to a magic wonder weapon?

We should be scared of this man coming back, not waiting patiently for thousands of years. Honestly, I try my hardest to understand it, but I see a greater chance of vast AI data centers in space due to a shortage of resources on earth.It is not going to happen.