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by dzbarsky
3 days ago
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This comment gives off the impression that bazel just wraps cargo/pip/npm invocations, which is incorrect (at least in the commonly used scenarios) First of all, bazel does not handle any of these languages/ecosystems itself. Such logic is delegated to language-specific rulesets, of which there are multiple implementations with different tradeoffs. For python - https://github.com/aspect-build/rules_py parses a UV lockfile and does not use either UV or pip at build time. For rust - https://github.com/hermeticbuild/rules_rs parses the cargo lockfiles but does not invoke cargo for compilation. For js, https://github.com/aspect-build/rules_js parses the pnpm lockfile but does not invoke npm or pnpm at build time in the commonly used configurations. While it's true that bazel allows to patch all dependencies on the fly, in my experience many Bazel users do try to contribute back, because managing stacks of hundreds of patches across all your dependencies isn't particularly fun. |
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> For python - https://github.com/aspect-build/rules_py parses a UV lockfile and does not use either UV or pip at build time.
rules_python does for example call into piptools to do installation
https://github.com/bazel-contrib/rules_python/blob/main/pyth...
To be honest this stuff feels like it's gotten soooo much better in the years since I've used Bazel. (one can easily argue that it's been thanks to language ecosystems getting their things better) compared to when I've last had to use Bazel back in 2021-2022 (I had initially set up Bazel in ... 2018 for an existing Python project). So this might be a bit like relitigating Python 3.0. The lessons are learned perhaps!
If I want to be very cynical... I think there is a universe where uv could have existed 5 years earlier if Google had decided "we're going to extract our Bazel learnings to get Python packaging to be better".
You might say "well they have blaze they don't need this" and that's kind of the point. In the world of setup.py you still need some language-specific infrastructure. Google and friends could have pushed things along in interesting ways, IMO!
But given their general sort of "we just vendor everything in" attitude they don't need to do that. So language ecosystems don't get the right kind of pushes and it takes us a decade for someone in the Python community to write "lockfiles that work + a package installer that works". Feels like a missed opportunity, mainly.