[psd1]

Amen. I only got my first job in tech because i put away 6 pints in the pub after the interview.

We conducted interviews after lunch, for this exact purpose. I saw good candidates interview but decline the pub afterwards - they did not get offers.

That company had at least two pub sessions a week, typically running to six rounds or more. We hit our medically-recommended maximum weekly intake by Tuesday; Fridays were carnage.

[72deluxe]

This sounds like hell. At one place I worked, they had free pizza on Fridays so the developers could sit around and socialise. If only they realised that socialising was the last thing the developers wanted to do (many of us on the spectrum) and awkwardly standing around chewing whilst avoiding eye contact; I wonder if they still do it?

Pubs sound even worse.

[alibarber]

I know this sounds awful - but perhaps hiring people that would turn their workplace into what you just described was exactly what they (as an organisation, not necessarily individually) wanted to avoid, just, perhaps not by overtly saying it.

[72deluxe]

Perhaps, but if they wanted any of their 6 million lines of COM-laden C++ to continue working into the future, they'd need those sort of people.

[piguin]

No, that's a bit reverse prejudice and also a bit wrong on assumptions. If you bring in people who are levels above they aren't inherently on the spectrum and it's once you bring them in that you have a dependence on finding more instead of working at a complexity and expertise level that might be more maintainable.

[72deluxe]

Of course, you don't have to be on the spectrum to be skilled. I was counteracting the argument that a company of developers who love chatting whilst eating pizza is the ideal for programming ability and maintenance of decades of code output.

Assuming that a love of social interaction equates to programming skill would be a mistake, as would assuming that lack of love of social interactions equates to programming skill. The two sets of skills are unrelated, but in a company of people who don't enjoy socialising, forcing a social interaction is counterproductive.

[sillyfluke]

Their numbers might be dwindling, but I would wager there are still some devs out there burning the candle from both ends.

To be fair, I find US forced company events like this way more unbearable than UK/European ones. In the US, the incessant combination of excessive alcohol with neurotic self-awareness gets you to another level of hell.

In another FAANG, the L7s were complaining that the level of office machinations that were occuring stateside was off the charts compared to the offices overseas.

UK afterwork pub culture should be under UNESCO cultural protection at this point, I'm always surprised it's lasted this long. One would have to admit it's fended off the decreasing consumption of alcohol in the new generation impressively even though they may despise the tradition.

[JohnFen]

> I find US forced company events like this way more unbearable than UK/European ones.

I'm not familiar with European ones, but I agree that forced company events like this is the US are unbearable. I rejoiced once I hit a point in my career where I could safely skip attending them.

[wiether]

I see lots of small consulting companies doing weekly/monthly lunch/dinner events with "everyone" and then boasting about it on LinkedIn, with pictures of the tables.

You can clearly see who are the consulting people, and who are the HR/marketing ones based on who's got fake smiles, and who looks like they are dead inside.

Not only it's more of a redflag than anything, but also, since they are all doing it, what's the goal?

[zeristor]

What about IR35?

If a contractor partakes they are deemed to be a permie, and their soul is taxed for eternity, or the end of the tax year, whichever one comes first.

[oliwarner]

> good candidates interview but decline the pub afterwards - they did not get offers

That's one hell of a lawsuit you're opening yourself up to there. People who don't drink have significant overlap with protected classes.

[asdfasvea]

Not trying to go ad hominem, but that's a very ignorant statement.

1. Which ones? I used to be able to stereotype with the best of them, but I cant quickly come up with any protected class that is assigned as teetotalers.

2. Saying you're not hiring someone because they don't drink is a perfectly valid reason for not hiring someone, even if it's a cover for not hiring them because of protected class membership. The laws protecting protected classes are super weak. It is virtually impossible to prove that is the sole reason they weren't hired. All you need is an actual other reason to not hire them--and of course don't put into writing that the real reason is their protected class membership.

[lwelyk]

Pregnant women are not supposed to drink.

Many religions discourage or disallow drinking.

I believe a recovered/recovering alcoholic could be considered a protected class.

Many medical conditions or medications cannot be combined with alcohol.

[oliwarner]

Saying they won't get the job if they don't come out for drinks excludes (on characteristic) recovering alcoholics, pregnant women, and about a quarter of the world's population on religious grounds.

And just more broadly, some people have lives, family where they can't just be expected out on the piss in the afternoon.

Admitting it on forum is the in. Just like admitting you've been working while up on ket.

[chronos00]

Religion is a protected class, and many religions don’t drink. If the reason they don’t drink is their religion, it isn’t a valid reason to state for not hiring them. Yes, most hr people in this case would use some other alternate reason that isn’t linked to the protected class.

[nickkell]

They could have had an orange juice

[DANmode]

> cant quickly come up with any protected class that is assigned as teetotalers

Religious or spiritual belief.

[gib444]

It's particularly difficult to bring a suit against a company for their hiring and firing practices due to difficulty in acquiring solid proof.

The excuse is always culture fit, if that even gets recorded anywhere...