[delusional]

Exactly the same reason you should probably clean the rest of the house when you're selling it.

Theoretically, the price of the house before cleaning should be equal to the value if the house after cleaning, minus whatever the cleaning costs. In reality, you'll get much less for your house without cleaning it, because human emotions.

[delichon]

We had a contractor doing repairs before we sold our house. Without being asked he took an orbital sander to the wooden hand railings along the stairs to the front door and said "people really notice this".

A family came for the tour and before walking in the father put his hand on the rail, looked up at the house, and said "this place seems well maintained". Then they bought the house after a small pleasant (for us) bidding war.

The contractor earned his high rate and then some.

[WalterBright]

A real estate agent told me that a customer decides to buy/not buy a house as soon as they put their hand on the front door knob. If he decides to buy, he'll look at the rest of the house looking for a reason not to.

I.e. putting in an expensive door knob is a good plan!

[HPsquared]

Also make sure the door operates smoothly and is well-aligned.

[lotu]

There's a reason the three most important things in real estate are "Location, location, location"

[jawilson2]

None of those are "door knob, door knob, door knob!"

[red369]

:)

I was confused by the parent post too. Perhaps they mean that you see the neighbourhood before you even see the house. A little like the first impression of the house is made before even seeing the actual house.

[SoftTalker]

Certainly wasn't the case for any of the houses I've bought. All were compromises in various ways; none were houses we loved on first sight.

[WalterBright]

Have you ever driven by a prospective purchase and never bothered to get out of the car?

> All were compromises in various ways

That's true of just about everything.

[SoftTalker]

No, if we took the time to go to the place, we at least looked at it. I don't remember ever driving up to any property and just turning around.

Did we rule looking at something based on photos/descriptions? Yes, certainly.

[WalterBright]

Photos tend to focus on the house, not the setting. A big deal for me is the relationship of the house to the sun, the neighborhood, the view, privacy, traffic, noise, etc.

[brnt]

> A real estate agent told me

Whatever you wanted to hear to make them the most amount of money in the(ir) least amount of time.

They are the sellers agent.

You should not trust them a millimetre further than that.

(I bought my current house based on a spreadsheet analysis. Doorknobs are easy to replace, foundations, walls, electric, a lot harder.)

[arcanemachiner]

You seem to be assuming that the real estate agent was in the process of selling them a house.

[WalterBright]

A good friend of mine is a real estate agent. I have never retained him. He's a fountain of good advice, though. He's the most successful agent in my community.

BTW, a so-so agent will lie to you. The ones on the top, however, are that way because they get repeat business.

P.S. Read books on salesmanship. It will inure you against slimy sales pitches.

[switchbak]

Maybe it's just me, but someone deciding to physically sand things without my consent would get a stern eye from me. Unless it's well into the "no brainer" kind of decision. (eg: the railing didn't have a finish on it, etc).

[pton_xd]

> because human emotions.

If I tour a house with pet urine stains all over the carpet, it's only logical to conclude that the owner is likely not maintaining the rest of the house to a very high standard.

[rootusrootus]

OTOH, spotless carpets do not really tell you the opposite is true. Just means the realtor doesn't suck.

[switchbak]

Absolutely - in some cases you'll see the major sins addressed, and there's a small mountain of lesser issues waiting to be uncovered.

[baq]

That’s exactly how you get a good price though

[senderista]

"Bring your vision!"

[harrall]

It’s not just emotions, it’s a sign that, when presented with something annoying that you should do but not strictly required, it shows that you pushed through and did it anyway.

It doesn’t prove that you’ve been generally on top of things for the lifetime of the house but the inverse situation where you couldn’t clean one time for guests sure doesn’t.

[john01dav]

There are other reasonable interpretations of such things. More precisely, one may simply care in different ratios about various things than is typical. For example, one may be fastidious with replacing furnace filters and water heater anode rods while not caring about their lawn beyond city or hoa mandates.

[austinl]

Having recently bought a house, I love thinking about things that increase perceived value relative to cost (more so because they're nice to have, not because we plan to sell any time soon).

A few things we changed right away: - new mailbox (replacing a rusted 30+ year old one) - lots of landscaping work (the majority of which I can do myself) - installed a wine fridge (I always felt it gave the sense that the kitchen was upgraded when we were touring places) - replaced old door knobs with modern matte black levers; ~$50 each

The house was built in 1968, so it's been interesting to think about all of the small things that make it feel dated that can be changed for not much money.

[dlubarov]

To add a few more: it's similarly easy to swap cabinet handles, vent covers, outlet wall plates. Fresh caulk is nice too, even if it's a bit sloppy, still beats stained or cracked caulk.

[ssl-3]

Those are things I've noticed when I've shopped for homes.

Mostly, I notice that they look like efforts that were motivated by trying to get a high price, but are limited to being fast and cheap.

So while I do note them, my perception of them is not generally positive at all.

I'd rather the outlet covers be original and clean than the new, usually oversized covers (with a slight color mismatch) I often find.

If I'm seeing caulk anywhere, that's problematic for me. When used properly-sparingly to seal things, it doesn't draw the eye at all. When it's used to hide sins, it's awful.

When I see sloppy caulk I first think of the time I'll need to spend to dig it all out. And then, I think about the time it will take to actually-fix whatever things it was hiding that nobody has ever bothered with actually getting right.

When I see new doorknobs on old doors, I'm mostly attracted to the outline that was left by the original hardware. And then I wonder: The old knobs were probably made from materials like steel, cast iron, and brass; stuff that can last for centuries with some maintenance. Why were they replaced?

Were the old knobs non-functional somehow, or were the owners too cheap and lazy to bother with taking things apart for a bit of TLC and preservative paint?

What other parts of the house were done fast, cheap, and/or lazy like a landlord who doesn't give a fuck? What haven't I found yet that they "fixed"?

[dlubarov]

I think it's safe to say you're in the minority. Empirically, "fast and cheap" cosmetic upgrades like repainting usually more than pay for themselves.

> I'd rather the outlet covers be original and clean than the new, usually oversized covers (with a slight color mismatch) I often find.

Any task can be screwed up if someone is careless enough, but this is extremely easy to get right. If a standard cover plate fit before, it's trivial to buy a replacement of the standard size and appropriate color.

Cleaning works too, I personally just wouldn't bother cleaning a part that costs ~$0.50.

> When I see sloppy caulk I first think of the time I'll need to spend to dig it all out.

Would you really rather see cracked caulk, which means (a) the original contractor probably used whatever cheap rigid caulk he found in his van, (b) it's been letting water through instead of sealing, and (c) noone cared enough to fix it?

[Scoundreller]

It’s the faucets and sink fixtures that can jump out at me. I… question some of the Amazon-grade ODDALLCAPS fixtures’ ability to not spring a leak in the long term. Showerheads are more whatever.

[ssl-3]

And the rest of the plumbing. I'm not saying that homeowners can't plumb properly (many do excellent work), but: Too many times, it's just ugly.

Sometimes it's easy to find: The "soft" parts under the sink are a mess. Flexible pressure lines that are a mile too long, bendy pipes on the drain (this should never happen), traps in series with one another, bizarro-world TPCLALL-branded Amazon-sourced parts that simply do not match regulated norms at all and which haven't seen a UPC® logo ever... but that's simple to rip out and replace.

Sometimes it's harder to find. Drains that go uphill. A sea of CPVC pipes running in every direction, with dead ends, all buried in the basement ceiling. No trap for the bath tub upstairs. Mixed metals. Mixed plastics: PVC is fine, and ABS is fine, but mixing them together is bad (and shows that a trip to the parts store to get The Right Fucking Thing was just too much work, since it wasn't done). Bad or nonexistent venting.

The problems of today are caused by the lazy, quick fixes of yesterday.

[Scoundreller]

You should see what I’ve seen in France!

I now realize a lot of the bad bathroom smells are because of traps siphoning dry. Tho the general lack of exhaust fans doesn’t help. Anywho, AAVs to the rescue! And mineral oil in their version of a t&p valve if it doesn’t need to drain much to prevent evaporation of the trap water: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupe_de_s%C3%A9curit%C3%A9

[madaxe_again]

And the wiring. Don’t forget the wiring. Bought a place that had a fault to earth. Took demolishing a wall to find it - previous owner had buried an extension flex inside a wall, just concreted over it - and hadn’t even done that properly - mice had gotten to it, and it was a corroded piss-soaked mess.

I have a photo of the original breaker box that looks like bad AI, it’s so unspeakably awful - just this wild spaghetti of muddy corroded wires and parcel tape with bits of string and random breakers floating in midair at jaunty angles, connected sometimes to live, sometimes to neutral, sometimes across circuits, usually doing nothing. The earthing was purely accidental. I just ripped it all out, but not before the microwave bit me one rainy morning.

[aaronbrethorst]

outlet wall plates

Also make sure your screws in your outlet wall plates are vertical. I've found it's a key tell between mediocre electricians & handymen, and the real pros, and it gives me confidence (perhaps unfounded) that the electrical systems are in good shape.

[marssaxman]

That's funny - I always align the screws in the wall plates when I (re)install them, but imagined that to be an idiosyncratic bit of fastidiousness. I've never noticed anyone else having done it.

[eszed]

Eh. I've been working (at $job) with an electrician I will be thrilled to see the back of, and whom (the feeling is general) we will never hire again, and... The screws are aligned, but eldritch horrors lurk beneath. That might once have been a useful heuristic, but too many have caught on to it.

[monknomo]

the little rubber gaskets in sink drains for garbage disposals are also a cheap upgrade the brings a place up a notch

[asdff]

I hate when sellers do this. Replace all the finishes and hardware with the cheapest possible hardware from the store just because it is new. You end up paying for a top dollar house (because now you can argue its worth more than comps that didn't get this treatment) with bottom dollar components.

What would be better is not doing anything and letting the new owner install what makes sense to them, instead of having them pay markup essentially for these placeholder finishes, but obviously we can't have any altruism on this capitalist earth.

[ssl-3]

I hate it, too. And obviously, sellers are motivated to seek to maximize the sale price, while buyers are motivated to minimize it.

But if these hacks do increase the sale price: When (if) you find a suitable place that has not had the cheap+easy hardware refresh, then it will tend to sell for a lower price than one that has.

And that's good for buyers like you, and me.

[asdff]

What is funny is it is kind of going full circle now with the home decor. All the 70s-80s era finishes boomers are currently gutting and replacing with builders special grey modern blegh are actually becoming popular again among millennials and gen z buyers.

[WalterBright]

Trump wrote in one of his books that a person selling their car that does not detail it beforehand is a fool.

[epiccoleman]

i find it extremely hard to imagine that Donald Trump would have ever been personally involved in the sale of a vehicle at the level that he'd be making decisions about whether or not it was detailed, but I guess it's sensible generic advice

[WalterBright]

Visit a used car lot. The cars are all clean and detailed.

[simondotau]

It’s not that a car needs to be clean per se, but you don’t want prospective owners to be distracted by thoughts of the past life the car has had in the care of another human. Nobody wants to touch the indicator stalk that has layers of dirt and finger grease baked into it.

[hfsh]

Or in the actual writing of a book, for that matter.

[noir_lord]

I’d be surprised if he can’t write two coherent paragraphs on one topic.

The bar is low and you’d still need to hand the devil a shovel.

[QuercusMax]

Did he also say you should cover everything the tackiest gaudiest faux-gold crap everywhere?

Anyone who takes business advice from Trump is a moron.

[mindslight]

If there is one thing Grump does know, it's the value of fools.

[gchamonlive]

> In reality, you'll get much less for your house without cleaning it, because human emotions.

It's trust, because if the previous owners can't even bother cleaning it up, what else might their neglect have done to the house? Maybe I'll need to change the house wiring, verify if any new paint job is hiding mold or infiltration... All that is the cost of uncertainty and uncertainty grows with distrust.

[skippyfish]

It's not just emotions, it's also a matter of time and uncertainty.

I was in a buying situation where my old lease was expiring soon, I had a second kid on the way, and the last thing I'd have wanted is to buy a place where I'd have contractors milling around for weeks or months to make various repairs. I was willing to pay a hefty premium for a place that's in a move-in condition.

I don't think this extends to "you'll get $10k less if you don't vacuum", but it's a common courtesy on a million-dollar transaction to maybe not leave a mess.

[WalterBright]

> you'll get much less for your house without cleaning it, because human emotions

It's not because of emotions. It's because it correlates with other neglect that may be less obvious.

A good real estate agent has a rolodex of various contractors that can fix up a house to ready it for sale.

[svachalek]

Cleaning the house doesn't retroactively fix the neglect though. It just makes the house look cared for to the lizard brain.

[john01dav]

Being rational about this (i.e., buying a dirty or otherwise manageably flawed house) is a great way to save or make money in markets where the majority of the cost is the building.

[benj111]

For the same reason, get a car with dents, or light obviously bubbling.

[longitudinal93]

This simple procedure increases the selling price of everything. Just a fact.

[kevincox]

See also why houses are often painted when being staged for selling just so that the new purchaser can paint immediately after with their preferred colour. Wasteful but it works.

[indoordin0saur]

> because human emotions

A messy, shabby looking home also signals that the previous owners were likely not diligent in taking care of their property.

[paytonjjones]

People often confuse "irrational" with "rational on inference given incomplete information"

This is the latter.

See also: stereotype accuracy

[BurningFrog]

It's perfectly rational to assume someone who didn't bother to clean the house before selling probably didn't take good care of the house in other, less visible ways.

[Theodores]

People always want to make a place their own with renovations, which means a new bathroom, a new kitchen, a complete lick of paint and the list goes on.

They would prefer to throw out an old suite rather than something that has just been fitted to 'sell the house'. The excuse is provided for them to make it their own.

What they don't want is filth. A spotlessly clean house is preferable to one that has been hastily tarted up with a quick lick of paint. It is respect for the buyer.

[retired]

I spend €125 on an interior decorator and another €500 in furniture and decorations after to make my condo more cozy. And then another €300 for professional photos and drone shots.

The photos looked like those fancy interior magazines. I will never know if it is because of my effort and investment but I’m certain that it attracted a lot of attention. People really want a move-in ready home that looks like the magazines.

[jawilson2]

> €500 in furniture

I feel like this is 3/4 of a coffee table?

[retired]

I purchased brand new furniture that looks pretty but quickly falls apart, looks horrible up close and isn’t comfortable. It’s basically decor pieces.

Amazon couch for $250:

https://www.amazon.com/Kingfun-Loveseat-Century-Upholstered-...