[walrus01]

I have found that the "mostly didn't lose anything" Q8 large models that I want to run are all too large to run on the "only $3995!" 128GB max RAM systems that some people are buying, and definitely won't fit with any usable amount of context. Things like Qwen 3.5 122B Q8 or deepseek v4 flash Q8, or Laguna S 2.1 Q8 need 170-190GB of RAM including full context, which fits on a 256GB RAM dual socket workstation or rackmount server (sans GPU).

Copy and paste below from my notes and reported memory consumption with latest llama-server, assuming use of "--no-mmap" to load the entire thing into RAM at the time that llama-server launches.

DeepSeek-V4-Flash-UD-Q4_K_XL via unsloth 145GB on disk GGUF 0.03.323.204 I common_params_fit_impl: projected to use 178175 MiB of host memory

DeepSeek-V4-Flash-UD-Q8_K_XL via unsloth 151GB on disk GGUF 0.02.215.885 I common_params_fit_impl: projected to use 184636 MiB of host memory

Laguna-S-2.1-UD-Q8_K_X via unsloth 120GB on disk 0.01.616.119 I common_params_fit_impl: projected to use 172860 MiB of host memory

Qwen3.5-122B-A10B-UD-Q8_K_XL via unsloth 160GB on disk GGUF 165GB RAM use on launch, fresh context 0.04.976.905 I common_params_fit_impl: projected to use 170038 MiB of host memory

[johndough]

DeepSeek-V4 should use only 5GB for context due to CSA and HCA, see figure here: https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V4-Pro

But not every framework implements it properly yet.

[walrus01]

Yeah, or close enough to 5GB for estimation purposes, for example a just spawned qwen 3.5 122B llama-server instance reports as:

0.07.015.888 I common_memory_breakdown_print: | - Host | 170038 = 162913 + 6740 + 384 |

The 6740 is the cache size.

[Iolaum]

There's an emerging practice of using Q4 quants and Q8 KV cache for local inference. At that point you can run both Qwen3.5-122B-A10B (my personal choice on Framework Desktop 128gb) and Laguna-S-2.1.

Now whether that's good enough for one's use-case remains to be determined. You can also get more out of those (local models and quantizations) if you further tweak the harness you use them with, but tbh this is where it gets too much work (at least for me and the time I have available).

[zargon]

> emerging practice of using Q4 quants and Q8 KV cache for local inference

That's not an emerging practice, it's a tested strategy that is these days only used as a last resort by those desperate to fit a model in memory. Some models do better than others, but generally the model quality suffers greatly under those conditions.

[walrus01]

I have never seen anyone report "this produced really great results" from intentionally quantizing their context vs. leaving it at full precision which is the ordinary default.

[trollbridge]

Gemma's QAT is surprisingly good (although Gemma isn't that great to begin with).

[KerrAvon]

IME: Gemma is not great for programming, but it is fantastic at following directions compared to anything else in its size class.

[apitman]

Artificial Analysis ranks qwen3.6-27b higher than qwen3.5-122b-a10b on both intelligence and coding. Does that run counter to your experience?

[nekitamo]

This tracks, in my experience the 27B is better at coding and instruction following. I'm shocked at how much of a difference the dense models vs MoE makes.

But it's a moot point, because for local inference on consumer hardware, the MoE is so much faster.

[apitman]

Are you sure the difference is from MoE and not that 3.6 is newer?

[riknos314]

Qwen 3.5 27B also scores higher than 3.5 122BA10B. So even in the same generation the smaller dense model outperformed the larger MOE

[riknos314]

https://artificialanalysis.ai/evaluations/artificial-analysi...

[apitman]

Ah gotcha, I hadn't noticed that. Thanks