[loevborg]

Please go on. I also feel like asyncio is a big hack. Even just accidentally blocking the event loop is way too easy. And I couldn't believe it when I read that you need to store a reference to a task in a set to keep it from accidentally getting canceled. How did this become the main stack of AI backends? It's like node but slower AND much easier to mess up because of synchronous IO.

[selfmodruntime]

Well references in python are mutable by default, so you essentially combine an asynchronous model with mutable shared state. Combine that model with unknown caller exceptions in any subfunction and you're in for a world of hurt.

[CraigJPerry]

I'm not sure i see it as a hack, but i do feel unduly burdened as a developer by async in python. I feel like there's a lot that i have to think about and i'd appreciate more help from the language.

I don't want to be overly critical, there's languages that people complain about and then there are languages that no one uses... If i compare it to js/ts, some stuff is genuinely better in Python - e.g. if you missed an await. While both ecosystems have lint tools available for this, but the behaviour is just friendlier in python.

Structured concurrency is better in python, but even if TaskGroup is nicer to use than AbortController, it still has its own foibles which means i'll usually advocate for AnyIO.

But the js/ts ecosystem just generally benefits from being async from the get-go where python you're just a time.sleep() away from a bug that will slip through dev envs and ci pipelines undetected and only rear its head under load in prod.

If i have a tip to share its the debug flag for asyncio run:

    asyncio.run(f(), debug=True)  # find some more issues before prod

[mstaoru]

Or just env PYTHONASYNCIODEBUG=1.