[ryzvonusef]

from what I've heard, the problem with moving sodium from lab to manufacturing is that all the industrial processes and machinery have been setup for lithium and the factories are reluctant to invest in entire new sodium setup for not much benefit for them; lithium works perfectly well and is in fact the superior product, why switch?

Lithium prices have faced a massive crash, so there is no cost penalty for them anymore. Sodium's cost benefit isn't that significant now, and while other technical benefits exist, the question remains, is it worth it to setup an entire new factory from scratch for that marginal benefit?

[adrian_b]

In TFA it said that the US company that was shut down (Natron) pursued a solution quite different from lithium batteries (with an organo-metallic electrode), which may have been a reason for their failure.

On the other hand the 2 Chinese companies that now make sodium batteries "rely on sodium iron pyrophosphate (NFPP) cathodes, which are chemically and structurally similar to lithium-iron phosphate in an LFP battery".

This similarity probably enabled them to reuse much of their existing fabrication lines for LFP batteries.

It is unavoidable that in the long term the cost of sodium batteries will be much lower than of any lithium batteries.

That would have been enough for their adoption for stationary uses, but their much greater temperature range (which allows operation and charging at -40 degrees, both Celsius and Fahrenheit) and their longer lifetime are enough to make them replace lithium batteries in certain applications even without the price advantage.

Lithium batteries will always be used in mobile applications, because they will continue to have a better energy per weight ratio, but for high energy stationary uses and for vehicles in cold climates it is likely that they will be mostly completely replaced by sodium batteries.

[ryzvonusef]

> It is unavoidable that in the long term the cost of sodium batteries will be much lower than of any lithium batteries.

The question is, will it be meaningfully lower?

if processes are mature, and because of economies of scale the difference comes out to something like a few cents (or less) per cell... at that point it might become meaningful to ask if the density becomes in play again.

Sure for grid density is not an issue, but installing and setting up a pack still has a cost... so let's say the cost saved by sodium allows them to buy an extra pack... but lithium's density allows them to save the headache of installing that extra pack... won't it even out?

[ZeroGravitas]

Sodium batteries use a relatively similar process to lithium, so I'd say overall that has sped up their adoption in manufacturing.

But the economics part is true, people looked to sodium as lithium prices went high and then enthusiasm cooled as they dropped again.

However they now seem to be passed that slump and the long term benefits seem enough for sustained investment.

It helps that the wider market is growing. You can keep your lithium battery factory and use your know how to set up a new sodium battery factory and aim to sell both to slightly different markets for the life of a factory.