[crossroadsguy]

I am not sure how it is in USA but in my country golf courses are abuse of public resources for (almost) private use. For a very few who can lobby enough for renewal of these leases and these are kept out of reach of the normal public, either by rule or by cost, sometimes both. Golf courses are lungs of many of the growing cities, across the world, but I do believe they should not be kept exclusive. Also, this comes directly from feudal/colonial times here. Those also require too much of other natural and public resources to be maintained.

[trollbridge]

In the USA they are overwhelmingly public and are desperate for customers.

The handful of private ones near me are also desperate for new members, and several country clubs have ended up closing. Considering some of the golf courses that have closed around me ended up being converted into Amazon distribution facilities, I am not terribly excited about the idea of more golf courses closing.

[contubernio]

In the USA as elsewhere golf courses are incredible wastes of water and false green spaces that would function better as green spaces were they actually parks open to the public they serve the wealthy. What is different is that in the US there is very little real (operational) worry about waste of water (or other resources) - at least compared to other places - and there is lots of space compared to other places.

[trollbridge]

That is an overly broad generalisation. Where I live, golf courses aren’t irrigated at all - they just rely on rainwater, like every other farm does.

One of the golf courses near me has tee times for $10. I do not consider that something that only “serves the wealthy”. They also periodically close the course and open it up for RC plane enthusiasts.

Another one you can easily go for a walk in - I often do. It is effectively a public space.

[scotty79]

The spot you live in might be an outlier. Golf courses in US use half a trillion gallons of fresh water annually.

[bookofjoe]

>Golf in Saudi Arabia: Best Courses from Riyadh to the Red Sea

https://houseofsaud.com/travel/saudi-golf-courses/

>Avoid: June–September — temperatures regularly exceed 45°C (113°F), making outdoor play dangerous

[rurban]

I love golfing in England and Scotland! But in Germany it's hopeless, it's treated like exclusive tennis courts. Australia has nice golfing experiences also. But in the USA I never found affordable golfing.

[gnz11]

Irrigation isn’t the only concern but also the loads of herbicides and pesticides that get dumped on them.

[trollbridge]

… which also happens if the land were people’s lawns, were farmland, or commercial space with lawns.

[gnz11]

Yes, that’s also a problem too.

[paradox460]

Bothers the snot out of me that I'm told by my irrigation water company that I have to cut back and have a brown yard, meanwhile I drive past perfectly lush green golf courses, with sprinklers dumping more water in 1 hour than I use all season

[lmpdev]

In wealthy parts of the US, maybe

The vast majority of the world is nothing like this

From Scotland to Tasmania, most courses congregate around already wet and mostly sand/loamy soil (largely unusable for other purposes without major construction)

I agree with you for artificial American places like TPC Scottsdale or Wolf Creek GC etc

[maccard]

I’m an avid golfer and I live in Scotland. I’m not going to pretend that they’re bastions of sustainability - it’s not rained here in 2 full weeks and my course is watering their greens and fairways. We’re not quite at drought but the UK has a hosepipe ban in place and yet courses are continuing to water and maintain.

On the suitability of the soil, for some courses yeah. For the vast majority - there’s 4 courses within 20 minutes of me in an urban area and they would be developed into property in a heartbeat if they sold. My home course has an apartment block cutting through it.

I don’t think any of that matters though - it’s not like it would be a public park if it wasn’t a golf course. It’s certainly no less resource intensive than the massive concrete jungle of a sports centre with a running track across from me, or a football stadium or any of the numbers of empty buildings in the city centre. It’s an amenity, just like any other, it has a cost and we have to accept that otherwise we might as well just tear it all down.

[bookofjoe]

Let's give a "Hip Hip, Hooray" to your links courses and the Champion Golfer of the Year. What a putt!

[parpfish]

I find it absolutely insane that there’s a golf course in Death Valley

[kylecazar]

Visualizing it on satellite view puts things into perspective. Here's Wolf Creek:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ccFwBoDZMrmK7Bvc6?g_st=ac

Just surrounded by dust.

[paradox460]

There are like 3 in St. George Utah, meanwhile nearby lake Powell is nearly empty

[duped]

Where I live the municipal courses are actually a part of our water retention and drainage systems that are provided at cost (or discounted cost, sometimes free) to members of the community.

Basically we found a good way to create green spaces for recreation out of flood plains and drainage ditches. During heavy rain they provide important buffers that protect the nearby homes from flooding, and reduce the urban heat sink effect.

That's not true everywhere but keep it in mind before making sweeping statements about golf courses. Some people like golf. It's fine if you don't.

[rickmf]

yes and new developments/ cities are doing a much better job balancing this in most cases. Golf courses are a great use for flood plains and overflow regions.

[tclancy]

Don’t forget the tax breaks! Some places (many?) use farm rates for the tax rate.

[trollbridge]

That’s odd, since golf courses aren’t farms. The ones local to me are not taxed at ag rates but are taxed at the commercial rate which is the highest rate.

Amazon’s new data centre, of course, is paying a tiny fraction of that since they negotiated paying less.

[tclancy]

I live in New Hampshire where our taxes are entirely property tax based. Anything over ten acres qualifies as farm land no matter what. It’s a quality scam.

[crossroadsguy]

Were those private lands/properties? Because in my country a lot (if I can't say 'most') are actually on public land with weird and disgustingly cheap leases which can be closed at a finger snap but somehow very few Govts have tried it because every Govt have ministers (and of course bureaucrats) who are members there or made members there, and then there are their kids and families etc. So no they can't be turned into building constructions really, I mean assuming the limits of corruption in my country. Because technically anything can be sold if we go down that way. Also, my city is reclaiming lakes, demolishing illegal constructions and parks are also being reclaimed and cleaned up etc.

Not perfect, far from it, but it's a start and no, that Amazon Warehouse thing I am not expecting to see here. People are divided strongly on religious and ideological lines here but everyone's tempers run high whenever Govt tries touching a public land, green patch, and now we just take matters into our hands whenever that happens.

[trollbridge]

It’s private land.

There are a handful of government owned golf courses (sort of like parks that have tennis courts), but they are not common.

[matkoniecz]

> Were those private lands/properties?

In my city (Kraków, Poland) there was attempted to waste enormous amount of public land and turn it into private golf course, funded from public money. It seems it was stopped after protests from citizens.

[navaed01]

Malcolm Gladwell did a great podcast on golf courses in prime urban spaces

https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/revisionist-history/a-good-w...

In some parts of the US it is certainly the case that golf courses are private and as a citizen you notice there are v. Few parks but lots of good courses. Many of the courses pay little in taxes so they’re also feels that there is a disparity between how the rest of society functions and golf courses.

Los Angeles is a v. Good example - huge urban sprawl - poor urban planning - few green spaces - amazing golf courses - as a runner I personally noticed I would be running around golf courses and not have any parks near me

[0ldblu3]

Malcolm is not much more than a pop physicologist who is a very good writer. It looks like he is going to get his way with that golf course in LA that has some sort of vote happinging soon. Here is what will happen.. "the public interest" will win, and for a while it will be a park of some sort, then there will be a slow but inexorable push by the city council to reduce the size of the park by selling the land to developers. 15 years down the road it will be luxury homes for the ultra wealthy and nobody will be recreating there.

[crossroadsguy]

So vote better. Fight harder. Make sure it stays green and opens to public at reasonable rates (so that all can access) if not free.

[rickmf]

US is a mixed bag. Where i am from, Michigan, we have over 600 courses and 87% of them are open to the public.

[cmiles8]

In the US many golf courses are owned by local governments as part of public parks.

Many new courses in the US are also built on non-developable land like former landfills.

Not trying to defend all courses, but at least in the US it’s not just uniformly bad.

[mark-r]

Within 5 miles of my house are 5 golf courses. I believe only 1 is government owned, by the city.

[topato]

Yeah, I could imagine golf being a sore spot for Indians. I never imagined India would even be a hotspot for golf, but given the amount of corruption going on, it would make sense that golf courses would be foisted upon the public. It’s always discouraging to see the amount of upper class Indians who, despite colonial times being long gone, are still very willing to sell out their countrymen to appease whites or to fit a British/white ideal. I hope I’m wrong about this impression, and I’m just seeing cherry picked news articles, but your reaction makes me think otherwise….

[nayuki]

In Toronto, I think golf courses are built on flood plains along rivers (Don, Humber, etc.). Some other flood plains are public parks. Houses are generally not built on flood plains.

[rickmf]

this is true in a lot of cases. its land that otherwise isn't great for any kind of development.

[philip-b]

Are you saying your country's government, for some reason, spends its money on private golf courses?

[matkoniecz]

Kraków, Poland tried but it was cancelled after protests.

[fluorinerocket]

Why don't the "In my country" posters ever name the country

[crossroadsguy]

Because it doesn’t matter in certain cases and the needy may just click on the profile and kinda figure out if they are so inclined. Or someone can ask and they can reply.

[scotty79]

> Golf courses are lungs of many of the growing cities, across the world

What? Why and how? And why wouldn't leaving a patch of forest there be way more efficient?