[smolder]

I understand what you're saying. I hold a different view of what is well made or not. Commercial success isn't the only measure. I believe dark patterns detract from the cultural value of a thing, which is how they came to be called that. Meta is a valuable company, but they could have made less money and provided much more value to society with different practices. There's a "rising tide lifts all boats" approach to commerce, and then there's the candy crush, perpetual enshittification, monetary maximalist approach, usually with negative side effects.

But that's beside the point. I don't think League of Legends is especially predatory, I just think it's a mediocre game that was well marketed at the right time to go "viral".

[icantevenhold]

I think it’s pretty subjective at that point what is good and what isn’t.

Totally agree on the dark patterns though.

Out of interest what is a game you consider excellent that maybe wasn’t marketed as well?

Personally I really like dungeon keeper 1 (& 2 as well somewhat) - but Bullfrog was very unsuccessful as a company and went under. I don’t know exactly why, should look into that history

[smolder]

The example I always go to for oddly unsuccessful games, (good at least, I don't know about excellent,) was Super Monday Night Combat. It was something like Valve's Deadlock, a 3D MOBA game more than 10 years earlier, with a bit of The Finals aesthetic. (Coins, instead of blood, gameshowy, announcers quipping over the gameplay.) I had a lot of fun with it, but it seems like hardly anyone noticed it existed. They never got the critical mass of players needed to keep it going.

[simonw]

"I believe dark patterns detract from the cultural value of a thing"

+1 to that.