[CrLf]

Faces on Euro banknotes are a terrible idea. Even internationally well-known personalities are associated with certain countries, and you do not put things that represent specific countries on banknotes used in different countries.

The EU isn't a federation, and having a single currency doesn't make the eurozone any more so.

The buildings aren't as bad, being european insitution headquarters. However, as they aren't necessarily widely recognizable, they come out a bit self serving.

[asdf88990]

You think people of some countries might protest Gutenberg, Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci, Maria Callas, Beethoven, or Marrie Currie?

If such people exist, fuck em.

[meeshmuesh]

It's not about protesting, it's about representation. They were born into what are now, Germany, Germany, Italy, USA, Germany, Polish.

Why not any of the below ?

Austria: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart Belgium: Georges Lemaître Bulgaria: Saint Cyril Croatia: Nikola Tesla Cyprus: Zeno of Citium Czechia: Franz Kafka Denmark: Hans Christian Andersen Estonia: Jaan Kross Finland: Jean Sibelius France: Napoleon Bonaparte Greece: Aristotle Hungary: Franz Liszt Ireland: James Joyce Latvia: Mark Rothko Lithuania: Mikalojus Konstantinas Čiurlionis Luxembourg: Robert Schuman Malta: Jean de Valette Netherlands: Rembrandt van Rijn Portugal: Vasco da Gama Romania: Nadia Comăneci Slovakia: Andy Warhol Slovenia: Slavoj Žižek Spain: Pablo Picasso Sweden: Alfred Nobel

Why was Callas chosen over Joyce ? why was Beethovan chosen over Mozart ?

[tialaramex]

Beethoven in particular is easy. The EU doesn't have a national anthem, or a national flag, because it insists it isn't a nation, but Europe does have an anthem and a flag and of course the EU represents Europe, so it uses those, that's Europe's flag on the money. Europe's anthem is basically the bit you know from Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.

Officially the EU prefers Karajan's arrangement, if you're a huge classical music fan you'll recognise this immediately, but for most people it's just obviously the Ninth.

[maratc]

Good point, however

> Latvia: Mark Rothko

Marcus Rotkowitz was Jewish, born in Dvinsk, Russian Empire (today Daugavpils in Latvia) and emigrated when he was 10 (and Latvia wasn't a country yet.) At home, he spoke Yiddish and Russian, and probably didn't know a word in Latvian (at the time, Dvinsk population was half Jewish, with the rest divided between Russians, Poles, and Latvians).

Your idea that he's the guy who should represent Latvia on a European banknote would probably quickly get you burned at the stake at Doms Square in Riga.

[lrasinen]

Sibelius was already in the last series of Finnish notes, so personally I'd pick Tove Jansson.

[zo1]

Case in point:

Nikola Tesla wasn't Croatian. He was Serbian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

[sznio]

oh attempting to put anyone from what now is ex-Jugoslavia on a banknote is a recipe for yet another genocide

[GuB-42]

Of course not, but people may complain that none of them are from their country. Maybe someone from Spain would like to see Picasso or some other famous Spanish figure in there. That's the reason for using generic images, the EU and the Eurozone in particular is a trade alliance of countries with different cultures.

I like what they did with coins the best, where one face is common, showing a map of Europe, and the other is free for the issuing country to choose from. I like the message it delivers, different cultures, united. And as people travel, they will bring coins from their countries, the resulting effect is that if you go to a Eurozone country, you are likely to see coins in circulation from all over Europe, which is a concrete example of free trade happening.

I wish they did the same for banknotes: one side generic, one side country-specific, but it may be impractical.

[tialaramex]

The reason not to do this with banknotes is that they wouldn't be accepted. "No weird money".

I happen to live in a city on England's south coast. So Scotland is quite far away and understandably Scottish banknotes, though legally equivalent to the notes you'd get here in most senses, are rarely seen. I know what they're supposed to look like and that they're 1:1 equivalent, but of course the guy who runs the Chinese takeaway near me wouldn't have seen one before. So what happens when a Glaswegian down for the weekend wants to order some food and tries to pay with the Scottish £10 in his wallet? The owner doesn't accept it. "No, no, no!". The Glaswegian insists it's legal tender [which is irrelevant, but if you don't know why it's irrelevant feel free to go look it up, it's not helpful for me to tell him this even if he believes me and I see no reason I need to explain to you either] and of course all the time they're arguing about money I am not getting my food.

So I took the man's Scottish £10 and handed the restaurant owner an English £10 because I don't care and now I can order food. Weird money is bad.

If you live in a border town you'd see notes from both sides. If you work in a tourist-facing industry you might recognise most of the variants because tourists tend to have their country's notes. But if you're some small town shopkeeper in Poland why would you know that this is real €200 note from Luxemboug? It's probably a fake, isn't it? So you make friction for these notes higher (some shopkeepers won't accept them) and even if legally they're fine you can't fix that friction in practice so people hate this outcome.

[blipvert]

The Glaswegian would be incorrect in his insistence:

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/what-is-legal-ten...

[tialaramex]

As I pointed out already, it's irrelevant so the fact it's technically wrong is also irrelevant.

[CrLf]

It's not a matter of protesting (nor is it a matter of nationalism).

It's a matter of bureocrats remembering that there are more countries in the eurozone than banknotes, and even if that wasn't the case, their denominations can be read as hierarchy.

[wvbdmp]

So shuffle them around. We already have a million coin designs. One side can remain constant, no problem.

[YeGoblynQueenne]

It's "Marie Curie". Marrie Currie invented the curry.

[odiroot]

*Maria Skłodowska-Curie

[tgv]

Yeah, that's precisely one of the reasons why there shouldn't be faces on bank notes. Shame on the nationalists that managed to make dreck out of it.

[matkoniecz]

> Marrie Currie?

An excellent example of possible problems! She is Maria Skłodowska-Curie and she herself preferred this variant

[asdf88990]

I really hate social media. “Jesus” Christ.

[testdelacc1]

Your issue is that people in Spain look at their note and think “da Vinci isn’t us, he’s them”.

Their idea is that they want people all over the EU to think of da Vinci as “us”. Over time, it’ll become more normal to consider luminaries from other European countries as part of the shared heritage.

That said there will be countries that may ask why their guy can’t make it to the note. Why not Herge, the Belgians might ask? The question is left as an exercise to the reader.

[CrLf]

Your last question is something to consider in the current context of rising nationalism, which is all about the perception of being left out (even in the larger countries, where that perception is about each other).

[luplex]

Okay but would people in Spain really have an issue with da Vinci? isn't he cool af to everyone? isn't the Italian renaissance shared European history?

[hammock]

> Faces on Euro banknotes are a terrible idea. Even internationally well-known personalities are associated with certain countries

Why do you believe that? That sounds overly nationalistic to me. In the Schengen zone you can live and work in any country. Europe even accepts a lot of undocumented people from outside Europe, willingly. The whole European project seems to be about breaking down national borders in a pro-human way. Why take humans out of it?

[CrLf]

You're free to read it as nationalism if you like, although I 'm very far from being nationalist, and I'd prefer if my paper money didn't provide fuel for nationalism.

The European project has worked all these years because it stands on the idea that we are all europeans with shared values, but also different countries with our own cultures. We are all the same yet different. The Euro banknotes (even though the Euro and the EU aren't the same thing) should represent that, not look like some specific nation's currency, which is what faces (any face no matter the personality) evokes.

PS: Perhaps paradoxically, the faces on Euro coins are a good idea (I like having my wallet populated with coins from different countries), for the same reason they're a bad idea on notes.

[luplex]

I think that actually these specific people would be a great choice for the Euro banknotes, because they are inspiring across borders. None of them are "national heroes". In Germany, we like Beethoven not because he was an exemplary German, but because he wrote bangers. In Germany, we look up to Marie Curie, because she won two Nobel prizes for cool research, no matter her nationalities! And they both migrated between European countries, like exemplary Europeans.

[expedition32]

Yes Germany is so progressive that explains the AFD.

Look nobody in the Netherlands believes we share values with other countries the EU is just a good deal. The moment that stops and its auf Wiedersehen.

[wvbdmp]

I sort of disagree, the faces SHOULD foster a unified identification as European. And at least on paper they do kind of nicely, imho. No one can argue with Da Vinci. Curie is Polish-French. Callas is internationally beloved and Greek. Beethoven is potentially the second-best known world-wide behind Da Vinci, and can be claimed by the whole German-speaking area, at least Germany and Austria. Cervantes is perhaps more obscure as a face, but well-deserved and everyone knows “quixotic”. Von Suttner is the most obscure and probably overrepresents the German-speaking countries, but it’s Europe, so the pacifist angle is hard to argue against.

Everyone can think of similarly deserving people. They should do it like the coins and just have an abundance of motifs from every country. Since they’re too scared to put english text on them, put a QR code link to some short text in every language. I cringe at the idea of QR codes in general, but what are you going to do.

The buildings are all the same steel and glass bullshit and represent nothing if not the widely despised bureaucratic aspects of the EU. The birds at least look nice, but they’re boring and hyper-harmless.

[CrLf]

I'm europeist (but no longer a federationist after the cooperation debacle that was the eurocrisis) and I have no issue with the choice of personalities.

I do have an issue with anything that might be interpreted as the proposals of some countries having had more weight that others.

There's a reason why the current Euro banknotes represent bridges that do not exist in the real world.

[ktosobcy]

> Curie is Polish-French. Callas is internationally beloved and Greek.

Erm... by this logic either: "Currie is French" or "Callas is American"

Also: you meant "Skłodowska"? :P

You see the issues here? ;)

[sva_]

> Beethoven is potentially the second-best known world-wide behind Da Vinci

You mean Europeans? Because I highly doubt more ppl know about them than about Jesus. And I'd claim the most well known European is probably Hitler, through infamy.

[ginko]

Jesus isn’t European

[gruez]

>>> Beethoven is potentially the second-best known world-wide behind Da Vinci

>>You mean Europeans?

>Jesus isn’t European

That's exactly the point?

[wvbdmp]

I mean of the proposed designs. Actually, why not have Hitler. I wouldn’t mind a “never again” series with infamous faces from every country. Could be fun, lol.

[CrisMystik]

Is it too much to ask to consider that the people on the banknotes are/will be depicted because they are European, and not because they come from any member State in particular?

[daneel_w]

I personally consider these people European more than their specific nationality, but more importantly they to me represent European humanities, science, and so on.

[luplex]

You know what, I have seen many hypothetical criticisms like this, but not a single complaint from someone whose country would "not be represented". Maybe this just isn't a problem? Like I'm from Germany, and I would be completely fine if they had picked only people from e.g. eastern Europe, if they were cool enough!

[watwut]

I feel like this comment section is all about people searching for a reason to get offended.

How dare you to use a face! How dare you to use a building! How dare they use something some country specific! And even worst, generic! Oh no, a building of an institution!

No matter what is in, people looking to twist it in offense will find a reason.

[CrLf]

I don't see anyone getting offended. People are allowed to disagree and dislike, and argue in a civilized manner, which is what I do see.

[flyingshelf]

Faces and buildings objectively make for ugly currency. Birds are somewhat okay, they disregard borders. I would have preferred more varied fauna or flora.

Just take a look at Maldive's currency and tell me that this proposal isn't terribly boring.

[watwut]

I genuinely liked how these buildings design looked. I like birds too.

I found faces more of uglier, but that is not the same as offensive. I dont feel insulted over the faces, they are just more boring to look at.

I think there is massive difference between "I prefer this other picture" or "this is ugly" and the "it is insulting and offensive" people do here.

[throwaway2037]

I found currency in circulation from the Maldives Central Bank here: https://mma.gov.mv/#/currency/notesincirculation

For me, the 20 rufiyaa bill is the most interesting design.