[II2II]

> In other words: this is all but impossible to impact regular users, and it requires a particularly careless developer to be hit by it.

Have you ever worked with someone who barely knows how to use a mobile phone? They will hand their phone over to someone they barely even know to do something they don't understand. They will follow instructions from a stranger over the phone, without understanding what the phone is warning them about.

I have worked with such a person. They did have someone walk them through a dubious process. Thankfully they realized what was going on before the process was complete, but who knows how much damage was done by the initial steps.

There are legitimate security reasons here. Whether there are reasons beyond that is an open question.

[g-b-r]

Can we freaking sell them dumbphones, then, and stop destroying portable computers for everyone else with that excuse?

Which incidentally is often just a pretense for other motives?

If computers have suddenly become so dangerous for normal people, and they want smartphones nonetheless, add to them a dumb-mode encouraged at the initial setup, and requiring some third party assistance to turn it off once enabled..! (and forbid apps to change their behavior if it's not enabled)

[ValdikSS]

Lots of dumb phones are trojaned on a firmware level. Trojans are different, but in general they allow the third-party (malware author) to accept SMS and forward them over internet. This is used to register accounts on a services which requires a phone number.

Here's my article about that from 2021. It's for the devices sold in Russia, but this issue is worldwide: https://habr.com/ru/articles/575626/

And here's more detailed research of two particular devices: https://notes.valdikss.org.ru/trojan-digma/

[mlrtime]

"Can we freaking sell them dumbphones"

Nothing is stopping the guy at Walmart or Tmobile from selling them dumbphones, or are you implying they are forced to?

[RunSet]

Try letting the blame trickle down from the pyramid's apex instead of blaming the footman.

Here is the first iPhone ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bvfs4ai5XU

The ad depicts it as a mere phone instead of a potentially hostile Turing machine. There is equivalent messaging in the android ecosystem but its advertising is not so ubiquitous.

[freedomben]

Following this logic, shouldn't we just ban smart phones for everyone then? If we need to dumb down all technology to the absolute lowest level, we should probably ban computers or at least require an official government-controlled license to get access to one. Is this a world you want to live in? Me neither.

[zbentley]

I suspect this is in bad faith, but assuming not: how does that follow?

“Large numbers of people will uncritically follow sketchy instructions and get hacked” doesn’t in any way lead to “and therefore they cannot be trusted with devices”.

“People keep dying in auto accidents” doesn’t imply “ban cars” on the first order, it implies “seat belts and airbags”.

[inigyou]

Yeah well this new thing is like requiring a certified Ford driver to drive the car.

[wartywhoa23]

Me personaly, I'm so fed up with these advocates of security-through-universal-presumption-of-imbecility!..

[iamnothere]

On the contrary, we should simply restrict app development to a handful of megacorps (who are all in bed with the government) so they can make more money and the government can get the data it wants. Problem solved!

[froggit]

> ban computers or at least require an official government-controlled license to get access to one

People seem to be ok with needing a license to operate a motor vehicle and those are far less dangerous.

[preg_match]

Cars are far more dangerous and they kill people. It’s the number one cause of death for some demographics in the US.

[realusername]

You are right, better locking them out of the Play Store, there's too much risk using it.

We could also imagine a 24h delay to get Play Store access with a modal to make them understand the risks.

[II2II]

A lot of people are misconstruing what I have said, which is pointing out that this can impact regular users. It not intended as a justification to restrict on-device ADB, and it certainly isn't meant to justify more extreme measures. That being said, we should not ignore what happens in the real world since the consequences are real.

[oblio]

Those people will be conned in a million other ways.