[staticshock]

The comments here indicate a surprisingly, in my view, mixed reception, for such an unambiguously good talk?

The main thrust is simple:

- Technology is not good or bad, it is an amplifier of human values and our collective ambitions.

- Those of us who are terrified of where technology is going are actually terrified that humans are, on the net, bad, and technology will amplify that, bringing about dystopia.

- Believing this this is self-fulfilling. By embracing such beliefs you surrender your agency, which is what actually brings about dystopia. If you, instead, have a positive vision of humanity, then you are one of the people that drives society forwards rather than backwards.

We are currently at a moment in history where this message bears repeating.

A lot of things feel unstable, and as a result we have an opportunity to redefine the world in good ways and bad ones. Those who choose to redefine it in ways that are intractably bad will often do so from the point of view of a system observer, not a system participant. This is cope, because in reality everyone, whether they choose to accept it or not, is a system participant.

[JuniperMesos]

> The comments here indicate a surprisingly, in my view, mixed reception, for such an unambiguously good talk?

It wasn't an unambiguously good talk. Many of the people attacking various portions of the talk are making good points. I actually agree that blackpilling is a self-fulfilling belief and indulging in it weakens your own agency, and it's better to have a positive vision of humanity and to wield your own agency towards that end. But the thing about positive visions of humanity is that different people have different, mutually-incompatible positive visions; and I think a lot of people don't necessarily agree with Andrew Kelly's specific one.

[vouaobrasil]

I don't really think the main thrust is correct, though, if that's what it really is. Because humans don't have to be bad for tech to bring about a dystopia even under your first premise. They just have to have enough instincts that are even potentially adaptive in times of scarcity that become maladaptive in a high-tech environment for tech to bring about a dystopia. And I don't think that dystopia will be a self-fulfilling prophecy, even if your second premise is correct, because if humans have a sufficient number of instincts to interact with technology to bring about a dystopia, it's very likely to happen whether we believe it or not.

Finally, even the majority can be optimistic about humanity or even everyone, and it could still lead to a tech dystopia because of the additive effects of good intentions sometimes adding to bad (see fossil fuel use for example).

I don't think we have many opportunities to redefine the world. We're already in a state where people just trying to get by is contributing to the destruction.

[jdub]

A positive vision of humanity alone doesn't bestow personal agency.

Personal agency alone doesn't solve structural dystopia.

[vinyl7]

> - Those of us who are terrified of where technology is going are actually terrified that humans are, on the net, bad, and technology will amplify that, bringing about dystopia.

I think this is true in that people will do what they need to in order to get ahead. If you play a game by the rules against someone who is cheating, then you will lose. The only way to stay competitive and have a chance to win is to also cheat. When people see others who act in an anti-social way (PE destroying companies, enshittification of software, etc.) go unpunished and reap massive rewards...then they too have to be anti-social just to stay on the same level or have a chance of succeeding. It's the descent into a low-trust society and a general race to the bottom.

The hope for me was that humans have learned from history, from all the past mistakes of failed civilizations and collapse of authoritarian regimes to build a modern world that is equitable. But there will always be narcissistic psychopaths who are able to say the right words and sweet talk those they need to in order to gain power and repeat history.