[OtherShrezzing]

Am I misreading this, or is ycombinator running a tool that transfers IP from an applicant’s machine to OpenAI and then transfers the generated summaries into their own servers. And that tool has some “webapp security 101” level vulnerability in it.

Feels like a disaster waiting to happen.

[tomhow]

It doesn’t upload code (it’s not meant to, anyway); it uploads coding agent transcripts. It’s meant to be a fun app like Spotify wrapped - that’s how it was described when presented internally.

[throwa356262]

But to generate those transcripts the tool does upload your code to an LLM of its choosing

;)

[tomhow]

Right, and you have to pay for the privilege :)

[TZubiri]

It's very common nowadays to claim that something doesn't have access to X when it does in fact have system level access to X, but the application code just doesn't use X (or a prompt is being asked not to use X).

>curl -fsSL https://paxel.ycombinator.com/upload.sh | bash

Point in case.

Trustworthy people will ask you to give them the right amount of access, they won't ask you for infinite access and ask you to trust them that they won't use it. Would you trust a contractor that asks for root, and your master password when they could have requested a specific user or some specific files?

[tomhow]

Sure - and people are able to audit what the software is doing and call it out if it’s operating in a way that’s unintended or inappropriate, just as has happened here.

Edit:

I’ll add this point as people always seem to want to raise the spectre of YC or the AI platforms stealing people’s code or ideas via these sorts of tools.

The value of any code or ideas is immaterial compared to the value of identifying talented people who can then be offered opportunities such as attending Startup School, being funded by YC, getting jobs at YC-funded companies or YC itself.

It’s one of pg’s oldest dictums, that ideas alone are worthless, and only working products and the people that build them are worth anything. Nobody at YC thinks any differently about that these days.

[TZubiri]

>>Sure - and people are able to audit what the software is doing and call it out if it’s operating in a way that’s unintended or inappropriate, just as has happened here

1. Yes you can audit client side and network interface, but not server side.

2. does 'curl $URL | sh' invite users to audit? Or to trust blindly? It's the equivalent of presenting a contract with 'sign here' stickers and pushing you to sign it quickly like it's nothing. Does not signal trustworthiness.

>I’ll add this point as people always seem to want to raise the spectre of YC or the AI platforms stealing people’s code or ideas via these sorts of tools.

>The value of any code or ideas is immaterial compared to the value of identifying talented people who can then be offered opportunities such as attending Startup School, being funded by YC, getting jobs at YC-funded companies or YC itself.

>It’s one of pg’s oldest dictums, that ideas alone are worthless, and only working products and the people that build them are worth anything. Nobody at YC thinks any differently about that these days.

I do agree and share this point, ideas are worthless. But this doesn't deal with ideas, it deals with code, which as a software startup I don't feel the need to convince you of its value and the risks of leaking it. If you think your code is worthless, close your startup.

By many definitions, prompts are source code, and what we used to call source code is now target code. So this indeed does leak your source code. It's not just an IP blunder to leak your source code this carelessly, but it's a security blunder to do so. "But Kerchoff's principle.." no, Kerchoff's principle is that you should design your system as if source code were public, not that leaking source code has no negative security effect.

Also, is it possible that YC is taking advantage of the 'your ideas are worthless' dictum? Just share your ideas with YC, they are too big to care about your stupid idea. But they are gathering intel on over hundred of thousands of startups, and the ratio of applicants to fundings is continuously going down.

And sharing your idea with a single potential investor, isn't the same thing as submitting your idea (and implementation details), to a system built by people who don't give a shit about internals or security, and that use third party tools and services from different countries to process your data in ways that they don't give a fuck either.

What guarantee do you have that by using YC's vibecode data gathering tool, your data won't end up in a training set that will make it easier for a competitor with the same idea as you to find your solution?

A decade ago maybe your idea was worthless and joining YC was a contrarian bet. Nowadays, this data is clearly worth something, and applying to YC is as mainstream as applying for a job, and both of these mainstream 'apply for a 0.1% chance at the privilege of working with us' tend to grow completely asymmetric and exploit the underdog as much as they allow themselves to be exploited.

[tomhow]

It doesn’t deal with code, it deals with chat transcripts, and only those in the directories you explicitly choose to share (yes I know transcripts include some code but you’re not sharing a working app codebase or anything close to it).

The entire purpose of Startup School for YC is to build great relationships with the most promising talent. The scale and cost of the event is vast, and the benefits for attendees are huge.

It’s a three day event with main-stage interviews with several top figures in the tech world and many other intimate events with YC partners, industry experts and fellow attendees. Much of the effort in organizing the event is maximizing the chances that attendees will meet other attendees with things in common so they can build relationships and maybe work on important projects in the future. Of course, YC hopes to be able to fund the most promising startups that come out of this, but nobody is obligated to apply to YC or take YC funding if it’s offered.

What I’m trying to convey here is that it’s in YC’s utmost interests to build trust and earn respect from the people who are participating in these programs, and there is no way in a million years that some code or implementation detail exposed in a chat transcript is going to be more valuable than building very positive, mutually trusting relationships with all participants and applicants over the long term.

[TZubiri]

>It doesn’t deal with code, it deals with chat transcripts, and only those in the directories you explicitly choose to share (yes I know transcripts include some code but you’re not sharing a working app codebase or anything close to it).

What's more important, the code? or the source?

It's the source. The mistake thousands of people are making is that the source no longer looks like code, and the target code now looks like what source code used to be. They are looking at the aesthetics instead of the fundamentals.

[minimaxir]

Those transcripts generally contain code edit diffs.

[tomhow]

Sure - though that’s all generated by the coding agents. So it shouldn’t be uploading original hand-written code (unless the coding agent is running on a legacy codebase).

Obviously it’s not something everyone is going to be comfortable sharing, but YC is transparent about what is shared and how it’s used.

Edit:

I now see you have to explicitly run it in every directory you want shared - i.e., it doesn’t t scan your whole disk looking for stuff to upload. So there’s every opportunity to limit what it uploads to only what you want to share.

[themgt]

for sure, "fun" is definitely the vibe:

Identifiers included in uploaded data. Information you upload to use the Services may include personal identifiers such as your name and email address (including names and email addresses of repository contributors), as well as other identifiers that may appear in commit metadata, file paths, transcripts, or other uploaded materials.

AI coding-agent transcript-derived content. Per-session narratives, certain session events including file paths and truncated command text, prompt excerpts, steering traces, and dispatch metadata. This data may include local file paths (e.g., directory structures such as /Users/…) and other contextual information that could be associated with an individual. Raw conversation history, full prompts, full agent responses, and full tool outputs do not leave your machine.

Information you upload may include Personal Information relating to other individuals (for example, repository contributors). You represent that you have the necessary rights and permissions to provide such information to us for processing in connection with the Services.

Usage patterns and activity intervals. We may derive and store information about your usage patterns, such as session timing and working-hour intervals, based on timestamps associated with your activity.

https://paxel.ycombinator.com/privacy

[classified]

AI can do no wrong.

[boomskats]

Maybe this is another one of Garry's 30k LOC/day vibecode specials that he's so proud of