[mmh0000]

I ran my own self-hosted email server from 2008-ish to 2018, and I would highly recommend against doing it! Especially when Fastmail and Proton are so cheap.

I was running Postfix+Dovecot+Seive+SpamAssassin+Fail2ban+certbot+spf+dkim+reverse-ip+<other random crap>

It worked! Receiving email was overall pretty easy. I know I also did things the "hard way" by ad-hoccing all that together, and today there are a lot more out-of-the-box solutions that do all that for you. But still. Being a full-time email administrator is a job I will never do again unless I'm getting paid for it.

You know what really sucked? Deliverability. Frequently, emails I would send would just ... vanish ... no warnings, no errors, no failures. From my end, everything was perfect. Until days later, people would follow up with me and say, "Are you going to send that email?" ...

I had a business IP (Comcast Business). The IP address was clean, not black listed anywhere, not on SORBS or other lists. Still, successfully delivering an email was like 50/50, with no way to confirm the other party actually got it.

[tsukikage]

Had no problems at all self-hosting for two decades; then a provider went bust and I lost my static IP block, and with it its two decades of reputation.

I still self-host, but now I cheat for deliverability: route the problematic destinations (I'm looking at you, Outlook) through Amazon SES. At a few cents for five-figure numbers of emails, it's as close to free for personal/vanity email quantities as it gets to have someone whose full time job it is to make sure outgoing mail stays deliverable on your side while still keeping everything else under your control.

One thing to note is that Amazon are not very good at keeping amazonses.com up to date, so despite including it you can't set DMARC to hard-fail SPF or you will have mail bounce days.

[ValdikSS]

I'm running 4 email servers, the oldest is from 2011 or so, to this day.

4 different countries, different AS.

I'm always puzzled by all the issues described by others. I had about 4 issues during these 15 years, all 4 were solved by reading the bounce message and doing what was asked in the message (contacting support of the destination).

[nijave]

I had a Digital Ocean VPS and it was fine about 7 years but on year 8 the entire /24 got blacklisted and it was game over

Took about 6 months initially of fiddling to get other email services to accept mail DKIM, DMARC, SPF, PTR, web form requests

[dizhn]

I had the same experience. Since 2008 or so on Hetzner of all places too. Their IP reputation is supposed to be shit if you believe any HN post about self hosting. I had issues maybe 3 times. The most recent of which was 2 weeks ago. I read the message, sent the postmaster of a German telecom my two IPs and they added them to their whitelist. That was it. Also postfix+dovecot+rspamd is enough. I have rspamd on the gateway that passes on clean mail to my real mail server.

The comments (not parents') are usually very weird like people are mad at us for hosting our own mail server or something. That is really an interesting phenomenon.

[Krei-se]

Same. People just remember it's hard because they don't test, don't like responsibility much and esp. because they test this in production not on a spare domain. Then all you remember from it is the 10 people shouting at you and that you need to fix it NOW and it's all super stressful so they never attempt this again.

[chappie7]

A lot of the people who complain that their emails were treated as spam when they tried self-hosting leave out that they were really sending unsolicited commercial mail.

For personal email, self-hosting is much more manageable. Typically GMail will send those messages to spam at first, but after a few different mailboxes have clicked “not spam” GMail learns the lesson.

[tripleee]

I take a middle path. Self-host receiving mail, and use smtp2go.com for outgoing

[jeremyevans]

I've done the same for about 5 years (switched from SendGrid to smtp2go last year). I blogged about it when I first set it up: https://code.jeremyevans.net/2021-07-29-running-my-own-email...

[tomatocracy]

Yes, I do something similar (with Amazon SES in my case) but only for domains I know are problematic (Microsoft-hosted domains are the main difficulty - I've never had issues with eg Gmail).

[amanaplanacanal]

As someone with a personal email on a Microsoft domain, I support this message. Microsoft is the worst. I regularly find that mail I should have received just never arrives.

If they would at least dump it in the junk mail folder, I could fix it, but no, some earlier step in the process makes it silently disappear.

[UltraSane]

How do this work? Do you need to use two different programs to send and read email?

[nijave]

Well, generally you need 2 different programs regardless. Usually an SMTP server for accepting and storing emails and a IMAP server for clients to connect to and read stored emails.

For the parent post, you configure an outgoing SMTP relay

Iirc called smarthost in postfix

[skydhash]

It's moslty due to how the protocol works. Sending and Receiving are asynchronous and may or may not follow the same path.

When sending the other side is the server, when receiving, you are the one. The protocol also has the concept of relaying, where message can go trough intermediary nodes.

So you can set one server for receiving email (yours) and another one for sending (smtpgo).

For actually reading, the server for receiving need to deliver the message (either built-in feature or through a program) to the correct mailbox. That would probably means writing it on disk somewhere. And then you need to use a mail user agent (MUA) to read that file. Protocol like imaps and pop3 are for transfering your inbox to another computer, not for receiving or delivering email.

[xorcist]

You could do it any way you like, but it you have your own mail server, just configure it to route specific recepient domains (or all domains, this is called a "relayserver" in the postfix documentation) to a specific mail server. Just remember to flag your desired outgoing mail servers as approved for your domain (in the SPF record).

[ssl-3]

For the end-user's perspective (ie, the dude who just wants to do email stuff with a mail reader like Thunderbird): It's two separate paths, as has been a normal thing for standards-based email for an eternity.

A user's inbound mail accumulates on a mail server. One server [protocol] handles getting the user's inbound mail to that user's mail client -- usually with protocols like POP or IMAP that let the user retrieve that accumulation.

Another server handles whatever mail the user decides to send, using SMTP. Each server is configured within the user's mail client, and that's just the normal way of doing things. It's ~always been split up like this (aside from outliers like Microsoft Exchange). :)

The user doesn't have to know anything about the existence or addition of a system like smtp2go. They just configure their client to send mail through mail.orgname.com (or whatever) like usual, and the back end handles the rest. Their pop/imap server address also stays the same.

---

Anyway, mail servers and relays. Mail servers don't talk to eachother using things like POP or IMAP. The traditional Internet way for a mail server to send mail to another is to look up the recipient domain's MX (Mail eXchanger) entry in DNS, which specifies the inbound mail server, and just send it over using SMTP.

It was thus delivered. It was all very trusting.

That trust began to break when spam became a problem that never went away. Requirements and reputation and filtering became a serious ordeal for mail servers -- both on the sending and the receiving side of things.

Services like smtp2go can handle part of the sending-side trust-wizardry in a centralized way. They do things like maintain the reputation of their IP addresses.

In using it like this, orgname's server (which might very well be under someone's desk) ceases to directly connect to each and every recipient domain's MX.

It goes through smtp2go instead: All outbound mail simply gets routed through smtp2go, as the result of a central back-end configuration thing on orgname's mail server.

In email terms this is called relaying, though smtp2go might prefer the term smarthost[1].

Meanwhile, local internal mail (from joe@orgname to jill@orgname, say) can just get delivered locally. It doesn't have to be relayed at all. This determination is made by orgname's mail server.

And, again: The user doesn't need to know or care that their mail is/isn't being relayed, and the concept of relays themselves is as old as the hills. The user can just be happy that their mail gets where it needs to go instead of being silently dumped into a ditch, and they don't need to do anything different on their end for this to happen.

[1]: https://www.smtp2go.com/blog/what-is-a-smarthost/

[lbriner]

Same story. Ran a set of about 20 postfix mail servers for my company. Prided myself on being proactive, setting everything up correctly. Using things like DANE even before they were mandatory but the trouble was always random blocking which was outlook.com 90% of the time and occasionally yahoo and Deutsch telekom. At least the latter provided contact details and were helpful getting things unblocked but Microsoft had horrific support. You are blocked, we won't or can't tell you why, nothing in the mail management system shows you any problems so we can't tell you what to fix, please see this 15 year old guide as to how to setup email properly and we will tweak the setting a bit to let your mail through until the next time we decide to block it.

So frustrating because they have no legal obligation to accept our emails but our product relies on them being delivered.

I gave up and moved everyone over to SES instead.

[nijave]

There used to be some web form for msn/Hotmail/outlook you could submit your IP to and 1-6 months later it would magically start working _most of the time_

Not sure if that's still the case

[sandcat_]

A lot has changed, in fairness. Stalwart + LLMs can help with the full-time email administrator part. It's a lot easier than it was.

And on the deliverability side, using SES for sending avoids this entirely. Yes, ok, not fully self-hosted I suppose, but it's close enough (and for most people, the bill will be pennies).

[sandeepkd]

I think the timeline is critical here and should be highlighted. Self hosting email server was something that worked out just fine in the past (used to host until 2014), however things have changed a lot with the scale of abuse. its not worth it unless you are doing it as a business. Sending a email from your home IP to big email providers with reliability is next to impossible. Even if we discount the spam management,

1. IP reputation is a big deal, its not just about not being on some blocklist, call it a cartel at this point, its about being on the allow list for other mail providers

2. Keeping it reputable is a continuous effort

[UltraSane]

The importance of IP reputation is a reason for why email isn't using IPv6 much.

[jjav]

If you hate it, don't do it, sure.

But I encourage everyone who likes tech and freedom to host their own email. So many reasons.

Some are pragmatic, for example that way you won't ever get locked out suddenly of your entire digital existence when google/microsoft decide to lock you out for no reason and you will never reach support capable of helping.

Some are more about taking a stand for freedom, but that's also worthwhile. The internet was not meant to be owned by just a few behemots who get to control all content. The internet is about distributed peer to peer protocols. Nothing embodies that better than everyone running their own mail server, if you can.

As many say below, if you're worried about the deliverability you can still run your own email server and have nearly all the benefits even if you use a third party relay for delivery.

That said I also deliver from my email server and it is totally fine, the fears are overhyped. Delivery to microsoft is the worst, but even that one just takes filling a form on occasions (been over a year since had to do it last time).

[thunfischbrot]

This seems to depend so much on the IP address space one is in. I have never experienced deliverability issues after the first year–and that's since the 2010s iirc. The first year I had to ask several friends to send me emails first, or dig out my email from spam and reply to it. After that it worked flawlessly for Gmail, which was hit-or-miss before. A single ISP I had to write to manually–the person responding to my mail explained that they blocked emails from my hoster's IP range wholesale but made an exception for my IP explicitly.

Never had any issues since then, though I did have to adjust to new standards such as DKIM, DMARC, SPF etc. over the years.

[Krei-se]

you can check your delivery rate with services there are lots that are free to check and they also offer to "warm" your reputation. I have not done that yet (money!) and outside this:

- Outlook.com consumer mail addresses

you can still get >99% delivery rate if you have spf, dkim and all the new cool stuff.

So no, please DO NOT recommend against doing it because ONLY if mail stays a decentralized service providers will stay forced to not blacklist everything but other large providers.

[nijave]

Easier to self host inbound and relay outbound. SMTP relays are effectively a commodity and pennies for personal usage. Worth <$1/yr to not screw with IP rep unless you own a /24. Less than /24 you risk some knucklehead getting the whole block listed

[close04]

Running your own email infra is not at the same level as the usual “self hosting”. Not to mention that email can be critical and missing an important email can burn a lot. Why put in that much effort on your free time, and take the risk?

You don’t build your own fridge. If it’s important and not your strong suit, pay someone to do it for you.

[Krei-se]

Have you actually measured delivery rate of some service vs. doing it yourself?

[close04]

You’re missing the point because you’re thinking like a techie and not like a regular user. But to answer your question, 100% with 0 effort and also 0 direct cost.

In my professional life I managed email infrastructures since 20 years ago. It only got harder.

[Krei-se]

Oh im sorry i had no idea to talk to other hackers i have to go to usernews.com obv. when this is the wrong place to think like a techie.

If you achieve 100% delivery rate you will surely share the results, right? No? Oh i guess all those services simply tell you they make it easier for you while not actually achieving that - but why check?

[ktm5j]

I used to run mail servers for a university and I also suggest that no one should do this. It's hard enough to get right when it's your full time job. No one wants that kind of headache just for an email address. Do what I do and pay for Proton and stick your domain on it.

[Krei-se]

"Hacker"news: Don't actually do it yourself man, just pay someone!

[ktm5j]

Okay, you want to have that worry hanging over your head be my guest. Something, someday is going to break. Hope it's not something important that didn't get delivered, cause it'll be your fault.

[arendtio]

I have had my own e-mail server since 2017, and there is only one instance where I know I had a delivery problem, and in that case it was funny, because I wrote to two people who had the same e-mail server, and one got the e-mail the other did not. So probably a SPAM issue, but certainly nothing my e-mail server could have done better...

AFAIK, that case in 2019 was the only time an e-mail went missing.

[pigeons]

Proton doesn't really host a standard email server like imap for you to access on the client side. You have to bridge/proxy/translate it. And Proton doesn't offer any of the convienences like distribution lists that you expect for the past 30+ years.

[tarxvf]

I run self-hosted email for more than 80 domains across three VPSs, almost all of which are one-offs or joke domains and then a handful of old and new personal and business domains.

No deliverability problems. The issues with self-hosting email are drastically overblown.

[GreenVulpine]

That's not been my experience. I've been selfhosting email on a small provider VPS for years, never had any deliverability issues that I know of. I've set up DKMS, SPF..etc records properly and I send maybe a dozen emails a day at most.

[ozim]

That’s something I have hard time explaining to the business.

Yea we do all the best practices but still no one can guarantee 100% deliveries. Just not possible for e-mail.

Yes we can have 100% over a year but after that it still is a lottery, can’t say anything about future not having suddenly 40% not delivered

[jazzyjackson]

Yes I figure if I’m going to pay someone to resolve a domain to an IP address I might as well pay the same person to operate my mailbox. Having clients that sync the mailbox offline is “local” enough for me.

[Greed]

Will second this, as someone that took the same path. Alternatives like Fastmail are so, so cheap when compared to the headache of building, maintaining, and troubleshooting a DIY stack. For something as fundamental as email you really want to choose the solution that gives you NO problems, rather than some solvable but troublesome problems at regular intervals.

Just too critical of a component in most people's lives to accept any level of unknowns in.

[paddim8]

Fastmail is not cheap...

[mmh0000]

Fastmail is like $150 for 3 years.

That's cheaper than I can rent any mail-capable VPS for, and it's cheaper than the electricity I'd pay (80W @ $0.15/kWh = $316 over 3 years) to self-host.

And that doesn't include my personal-time hourly cost.

[ssl-3]

I'm not saying that a person should undertake hosting their own email here in 2026, but: 80 Watts sounds like a lot for a personal mail server.

The last small-corpo email server I ran myself was a Pentium 4 box that worked for eons. It did all of the things (the spam filtering, the virus scanning, the tossing, the software RAID storage, the open internet-facing ports including the webmail) for all of the people.

But it turned out that even with dozens of users, it hardly ever saw any load. Email was a complete snoozefest for it.

I'm quite confident that an N100 box would run circles around that P4 machine using any metric, and use an average of less than 10 Watts if all it needs to do is serve mail at home.

[paddim8]

$150 for 3 years for just email is not cheap in my opinion. Also, it says closer to $200 for me but maybe it's regional. Fastmail is not a cheap provider. iCloud, Purelymail, Migadu, etc. are cheap.

You can certainly rent a mail-capable VPS less. Especially if you send emails through the AWS mail service. A small home server capable of hosting mail will absolutely not use 80W. It will use <10w.

[tinnet]

I find the price jump at 5gb for Migadu pretty steep. I’m carrying around 2 decades of emails so I’d need the next size up for sure and that brings it in Fastmail territory without providing all the bells ans whistles Fastmail has. (E.g. 1Password masked mail integration, iOS push)