[shipman05]

I'm dismayed by the current political discourse on this topic. Seems like the two camps are 1) let mega corps build data centers with impunity or 2) use NIMBY tactics to oppose them in all cases.

I want to see a pro-growth approach that makes the mega corps assume the costs of their negative externalities. I want to see an increased build out of renewable and nuclear energy sources. I want to see environmental protections in place to limit impacts on aquifers and other water sources.

Democracies don't handle nuance well.

[thegrim33]

It's less a fault of "democracy" and more a fault of partisan extremism where all dimensionality and nuance is removed, it's intentionally made into an "us" vs "them" issue with only two extreme sides, where either you're fully with "us" and everything we believe, or you're evil/horrible/etc. If you dare to fall in the middle somewhere, that's not allowed by the extremists on one side; you're lumped in with and seen as no different than the opposite extreme.

[palmotea]

I am pro-AI datacenters. I just think they should all be built in Atherton and the Hamptons, with the stipulation they're only allowed to be built adjacent to the most expensive residential property in the area, in the way of its most impressive view.

[jagged-chisel]

"In the way of"? How about ... as an enhancement of the most impressive views.

[palmotea]

> How about ... as an enhancement of the most impressive views.

I like it!

[glaslong]

I think the problem is that "make them build responsibly" has the same outcome as "ban altogether" while being more effort on both sides.

It's too much easier and cheaper to drive one town over and bribe a local politician to let you pollute the river with impunity.

Maybe if we had some sort of Environmental Protection Agency or Federal Trade Commission that could enforce more broadly it would be a different story, and every hyperscaler DC could come with a guarantee of boosting clean energy and water reclamation. That would be a cool thing to have.

[runarberg]

One of the camps has all the money, hold all the power, and does indeed behave with impunity. The other camp has no power, has no way to affect anything, holds no political relevance, and NIMBY tactics is one of very few ways they can even hope to have at least some tiny chance of a minor change in their favor.

I think it does the discourse a disservice to take these two as equal.

[barbazoo]

> the two camps are

Or are those just the two ends of the spectrum? I don't know anyone on either extreme of the spectrum.

[shipman05]

The "build with impunity" doesn't self-identify as such, and they would probably describe their position with more nuance. Something like "ensuring continued American economic growth and tech leadership while taking 'reasonable' precautions to reduce environmental harm"

If you haven't met any "oppose data centers in all cases" people, I would politely and earnestly recommend expanding your circle. AI and data center construction is extremely unpopular across political lines right now. Just about every politically engaged person I know who isn't in tech is strongly opposed to both (opinions often hypocritically expressed on Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, etc).

[jjulius]

>Democracies don't handle nuance well.

Especially when modern discourse revolves around 140-character hot takes.

[bakies]

And Instagram reels. Mine is so full of anti-green-energy propaganda I uninstalled the app.

[penr0se]

Instagram's algorithm is based on what you interact the most with (even stopping to watch the reel, to read comments or to write one counts as interacting). You can start marking all that content as "Not interesting" and in the worst case just blocking those profiles to fix your feed and algorithm (or even go to your settings and tweak your interests directly).

But uninstalling the app is never a bad choice regardless

[bakies]

Yeah I started blocking and gave up

[no-name-here]

One more option - you can also reset your algorithm in the IG settings.

[DemocracyFTW2]

> Democracies don't handle nuance well.

Failing democracies don't handle nuance well.

[fellowmartian]

There’s the pro-growth Abundance faction, but they’re captured by special interests, so they’re predictably advocating for supply-side YIMBYism and relaxed regulation, without addressing the political economy that led us to the current situation.

[reticulates]

Democracy isn't to blame, capitalism is. The mega corps have every incentive to dodge the costs of their negative externalities and they have them money to lobby for that. The "reasonable" citizen supporting growth with caveats will be drowned out by the mega corp and their mega wallets. The loud NIMBYs are the only group that have any chance of stopping the negative externalities which they achieve by blocking the growth. Your enemy isn't the NIMBY, your enemy is the mega corp, the NIMBY is your ally, they are the backstop.

[bakies]

Seriously, it can't be that hard to build a datacenter and not piss people off. The economics demanded scale so fast that the capitalists don't care enough to thoughtfully plan this stuff out.

[thereisnospork]

This is America, anything you do pisses people off[0]. The problem is that the rest of us listen to them because it is easier to understand one person's complaint than the distributed pain of electricity being a penny per kwh more expensive.

[0]I've seen people whinging about building solar plants in the desert, windmills off shore, data centers in silicon valley...