[andy99]

I have a framework desktop w/ 128GB that I bought last Christmas and if I’m looking at it right it costs $2000 (CAD) more now because of the RAM shortage (and in any event is apparently out of stock). Would love to have 192 GB but I’m not sure I can justify buying another.

Does anyone have a sense of how this might progress, e.g if I can get a 256 or 512 GB in a year if I wait. In any case I’m jealous this exists and I don’t have one.

One last thing, I assume this isn’t exclusive and there will be other builds with this same config same as current Strix Halo?

[nrp]

Unfortunately we don't have any indication of memory pricing coming down in the next year, and many indications pointing to memory pricing continuing to increase pretty substantially over the next six months, especially for the LPDDR5X we use in Framework Desktop.

[nl]

On RAM supplies, the best estimates I've seen are https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/dram/cxmt-close-t...

They are estimating a 25% shortfall in supply remaining in 2030, even with Chinese companies ramping up DDR5 supply.

It's not looking great - the RAM producers need more of the same machines that other semi-conductor manufactures need and the suppliers of those seem unable to increase production.

[doom2]

It's good to know that despite warnings of a shortage in 2024, little was done in advance to prepare and now we're looking at years of shortfall for both commercial and consumer needs. Export controls preventing fab equipment being sold to China will likely extend it further. It will be interesting to see how much consumer electronics companies will be able to raise prices before people call it quits. Especially with the new normal of electronics getting more expensive post-release instead of less (eg, the PS5).

[nl]

I think it's important to note the context though: There had been a RAM glut that meant Micron lost money every quarter in 2023, with revenue almost halving vs 2022. This was post-pandemic, and demand had dropped a huge amount.

The RAM companies didn't have money to invest.

https://www.chiplog.io/p/dram-was-the-worst-business-in-chip...

[mapontosevenths]

> the RAM producers need more of the same machines that other semi-conductor manufactures need and the suppliers of those seem unable to increase production

I suspect that it is very, very profitable for them not to increase production and instead increase prices.

This is one of those cases where the free market fails and governments should step-in. IP laws are there to elevate the arts and sciences, not stifle them in the name of profit.

[esseph]

> IP laws are there to elevate the arts and sciences, not stifle them in the name of profit.

Hmmmmmmmmm

[mapontosevenths]

I mean, that's what the US constitution says very plainly. It does seem to be a pretty unpopular take these days though.

"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

[hyperman1]

"To protect the children, ...."

[mapontosevenths]

The government invented intellectual property for a reason, and in this context it isn't serving it's puprose. It's not some natural law or inalienable right, it's a government monopoly that trades public rights for scientific progress.

[cyanydeez]

what I read in I think the direct AMD press, it's essentially like a 10% upgrade to compute but mostly ram.

I agree, this is the direction AMD was going in to larger attached memory and they got hit by the memory cartel pricing; They likely were going to hit 256GB instead of this weird glitch in the sizing.

So, yes, of course they're going to hit higher memory sizes; but since they models are meant for laptops and to get the speed you want for inference, they're soldered, you have no real options.

Framework in particular might have a high value on ebay as I assume this will be a drop in replacement for their existing motherboard.

[matthewfcarlson]

The market research I have seen indicated DRAM prices will not come back to “normal” until 2030 at least and probably 2031. You can wait, but it will probably be longer than a year

[Tuna-Fish]

Yes, others should be able to do this too, and the change is larger memory chips.

The next big step is Medusa Halo, which will have a 384-bit LPDDR6 interface. Those should be able to support 256GB at release, with 512GB coming later with larger chips (But I don't know to what extent people should trust the memory vendor roadmaps.) I'm not sure if they will be out in a year. Probably will be in a year and half.

[myrmidon]

Are you generally happy with it? What do you mainly use it for?

I'm kinda tempted by the frameworks because they are somewhat energy efficient and compact (which I both value highly!) but my concern is that the GPU is on the low end for 1440p gaming (while being barely price-competitive with a self-built Ryzen9950 + 9070XT combination).

[data-ottawa]

Most games play just fine at 1440 or 4K with upscaling.

Cyberpunk ray tracing is a bad experience, but I just finished 007 First Light on ultra settings with an 5k monitor using FSR and it was 45+ fps the whole time. Targeting 4K with fsr was 60fps.

I’m not a hardcore gamer or a pro reviewer, but it mostly just works without having to change much. If I were a hardcore gamer I think I would go with a better setup.

My big complaint for gaming is that they never enabled HDMI CEC. Apparently the pins are wired but they never shipped the firmware.

[andy99]

I use it exclusively as a server for LLM inference - first more for research but have been using it for coding now that there are sufficiently capable models that run on. For that I’m very happy.

[Iolaum]

Likewise here, my setup costs 2k+ more eur as well. Given that memory bandwidth remains the same I don't think it's worth buying if you have the 1st gen framework desktop. Usecase caveats apply.