[JKCalhoun]

"My counter argument is that you only need 1% of the population to be bad apples…"

"For all those reasons, you need surveillance to catch criminals and restore trust…"

We're making a huge assumption here that surveillance takes it down to less than 1%. You'd hate to be trading freedom for nothing at all.

[scoofy]

High-trust societies are based in transparency. Ironically you get high-trust by actually not trusting people. We can have surveillance and transparency at the same time... the point is that people actually need to be accountable.

It's the lack of accountability, especially on the meta-level where the people that need to be held accountable know that there is no accountability, that can make surveillance dangerous.

We need both police, and we need the police to have police, and at every level, there ought to be an antagonistic relationship.

Just deciding, fuck it, no transparency and no surveillance is just going to lead to organized crime and cronyism... and surprise, surprise, that's exactly what we're getting in America.