[FireBeyond]

I still also totally don't get their policy.

Trying to avoid false positives by not firing until a threshold was hit (was it 20 images?) seemed insane from a PR position... rightly or wrongly, all it would take would be the wrong court case and you can see the headlines:

"Apple says users can have up to 20 CSAM images on their phone before they'll tell police"

[xphos]

Imagine you have pictures of someones baptism and the kid was nude. Is it CSAM? I think the program would have to say use but morally I'd say no. The issue with client scanning is it has to assume the worst, or they are than liable. If its the person has 20+ different baptism of nude babys well huh that actually might be CSAM because the context of how that concentrated photos implies but even than its hard what if that person actually has 20 God Children its less crazy than one thinks... Especially if they have multiply phones from a single baptism.

You might not like pictures that way but honestly I think more important in procescuting CSAM is to go after the large sources of CSAM generation. Its trafficing in East Asia, and in Europe. I think weirdly America actually produces less CSAM in general because Americans are lot more off put by Sex than most other cultures. Abuse definitely happens in the US but making policy decisions like this produces bad policy.

Does iCloud rehost the photos to other people I don't really know because I use andriod tbh. If they are being rehosted (I assume to members of your contacts) that can be problematic but I think honestly the issue a lot more complex than just protect the children which the source of critic is a lot attacks against apples are coming from

[nylonstrung]

> America actually produces less CSAM in general because Americans are lot more off put by Sex than most other cultures

The US has the largest pornography industry in the world by a massive margin, and the largest consumption of online pornography per capita

Meanwhile should we be surprised that CSAM production is higher in countries like the Philippines that have very weak digital policing, abject poverty, high numbers of street children etc?

[dgellow]

The US is pretty extreme, you have at the same time easy access to all the pornography you want (unless you’re in states that require age verification), and also a very prude culture. It’s not the only place with such contradictions though

[RajT88]

Texas is particularly wild to me as a midwesterner. All the bibles and megachurches and all that and... They have strip clubs freaking everywhere! Really weird zoning laws as well - I recall seeing a strip club across the street from an Office Depot, next to a deli. The suburbs where I live, you have to go to a seedy part of town so you feel good and ashamed about it. lol

Some TV shows rightfully take aim at this contradiction (recently: The Hunting Wives).

[brokenmachine]

My uninformed guess as a non-murican would be that it's just zoned as a business.

I doubt there would be a special zoning category exclusively for strip clubs.

[RajT88]

That varies from state to state, and even city to city.

Where I live "adult entertainment" businesses are forced in most cities to use industrial zoning, like in warehouse / factory districts.

In Texas, I guess it is a lot more restrictive, but most of those businesses are "grandfathered" in because they were built before the suburban areas got built up and the tougher zoning laws went into place.

[dgellow]

That’s hilarious!

[mothballed]

The age of consent in the PI was like 14 until a couple years ago when they changed it to roughly match international norms, in their culture it was considered consensual rather than abuse until very recently.

[FireBeyond]

You can get married with parental or a judge consent at any age in Mississippi, New Mexico, and Oklahoma.

You can get married at 15 in Hawaii and Kansas.

You are "grandfathered" into sexual consent (not as in "marital rape" but "no longer statutory rape") when you do so.

So we may not want to be lording it too much on "international norms", particularly given that most of the marriages that happen at those ages are not "young couple got pregnant" but "older man in conservative/religious community".

[d1sxeyes]

The proposed mechanism was hash matching against known CSAM images, so the baptism photos would not trip the filter because they wouldn’t be hash matches.

[wildfireday2]

But AI algorithms actually deployed by other cloud services do not. You’d hope that they wouldn’t flag a baptism or bris photo but currently fielded systems are flagging doctor-patient medical photos and have ruined lives, so.

[dgellow]

> Imagine you have pictures of someones baptism and the kid was nude. Is it CSAM?

In some countries it is as far as I’m aware

[fortran77]

The practical problem is, without a threshold, they'd have an order of magnitude more false positives than 'real' detections, making the system useless.