[itake]

What am I trying to understand about the western models on the term "Gaza genocide"?

I asked Grok "Tell me about the gaza genocide" and it write a IMHO balanced answer comparing why genocide is and isn't the right term. [0]

ChatGPT 5.6 Sol only explained why people call it a genocide and did not go in as in depth as Grok did for why people don't agree with the term. [1]

The only unsaid response (to me) here is the model should have declared that it was not a genocide, and because these models explain why it was a genocide, they are bad?

[0] - https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_c078bc15-ef5e-42bc-b... [1] - https://chatgpt.com/share/6a5ef005-0148-83ec-828d-65ae7a7f42...

[xlmnxp]

This kind of response is predictable, since these models are tuned to align with one side of the issue. A recent example: Grok answered a similar question and was suspended shortly afterward [1]. Furthermore, a UN commission has formally concluded that it constitutes genocide [2] — a fact that Western AI models rarely mention, let alone link to directly.

[1]: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/science-technology/xai-s-grok-tempo... [2]: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-c...

[almogo]

Man, it's so important to read sometimes. I really hope HN people passing by this comment take a second to contemplate what's being said here.

The claim: "the models are tuned to align with one side of the issue, he is an article from ArsTech about it"

The reality: grok got mass-reported on X by pro-Israel accounts, leading to an automated suspension, which was undone by the X team shortly thereafter.

Absolutely nothing to do with the models aligning to one side or the other on this conflict. The claim is unfounded.

[itake]

My understanding is a commission's findings are not a UN ruling.

The UN ruling is discussing in the South Africa vs Israel case [0], which has not been ruled on yet.

[0] - https://www.icj-cij.org/node/206406

[culi]

So all the models you tried disagreed with the United Nations ruling?

In international law, that is the ultimate authority of what is/isn't a genocide. It's objectively, legally speaking, a genocide.

[throw64259]

The UN isn’t a magical oracle of “Truth” - any more than an LLM is.

It’s a political body, with easily provable biases, and topics you can’t trust it on.

[culi]

The United Nations is biased when it found it was a genocide in August 2025: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/report-of-coi-14aug25/

The ICJ was biased in January 2024 when it said Israel's actions are consistent with genocide: https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203447

The ICC was biased when it issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant, charging them as war criminals in November 2024: https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157286

The United Nations remained biased June of 2026 when it said Israel was continuing to commit genocide by targeting children: https://news.un.org/en/story/2026/06/1167790

The world's leading organization of genocide scholars, the IAGS, was biased in August 2025 when it also resolved that Israel is committing genocide: https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS...

Amnesty International's investigation that concluded genocide in December of 2024 was also full of bias: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-inter...

The UNHR and its collaborators (human rights law clinics at Yale Law School, Cornell Law School, Boston University, and the University of Pretoria) must've been biased in May 2024 when they released a rigorous legal analysis and concluded that Israel's actions violate the 1948 Genocide Convention https://www.humanrightsnetwork.org/projects/genocide-in-gaza

---

Every single one of those were biased except for you and your LLM :)

[throw64259]

Every Western LLM will happily list you these sources, (which is likely how you got it), and would also happily discuss with you - if you’re interested - the reasons some of them may be unreliable and why your accompanying text is sometimes misleading or misrepresenting what the links actually say.

[culi]

No I got this list by paying attention. It would do you well to stop assuming everyone is as handicapped by LLM-dependency as you are. Every single one of these reports was a major news story. It boggles my mind how uninformed people can be and still readily jump into a debate online

Okay please. Tell me how I misrepresented the links. I would love for you to actually do the work of reading them. Something you should've done for the past few years as they were coming out. Better late than never

[throw64259]

The ICJ has not concluded anything.

The ICC has not concluded anything - and it’s not even about genocide. It’s also the only known case in modern times where the prosecution officially started before the alleged crimes being prosecuted have been committed.

IAGS was 120 people out of an association of 500 that anyone can join.

It’s trivial to see that the UN is strongly biased by just taking one look at the data here, for example: https://unwatch.org/2025-unga-resolutions-on-israel-vs-rest-...

Or by looking at similar historical data, or at the obvious lies and omissions in many of its reports.

[inigyou]

The UN is just someone easy to point to. The full fact is that everyone who's gone looking to see whether or not it's a genocide, including the UN, has discovered that it's a genocide. There's no ambiguity, yet the model is pretending there is.

[throw103882]

Anyone who goes looking to find a genocide will find it. Many people do not think it’s a genocide - including millions of Israelis who follow the events in great detail and often have first-hand accounts of what’s happening in Gaza. I don’t think it’s a genocide.

The UN, for example, concluded that Israel is “Imposing measures intended to prevent births” because of one incident where a bomb fell on an IVF clinic in 2023 destroying 4000 embryos and 1000 sperm and egg samples. For context, there were approximately 50,000 live births registered in Gaza in 2025.

By the UN standard applied to Israel, the 1 million abortions conducted in the US per year is an ongoing genocide.

By the UN standards applied to Israel, jerking off is an act of genocide.

I think that any large intelligent and balanced model would be able to see right through that.

[inigyou]

I mean yeah, Germans didn't think they were doing a genocide either until decades after it happened.

Obviously when I say "everyone" I'm excluding those who have a conflict of interest.

[throw103882]

Let’s not pretend that there’s no conflict of interest on the other side of the debate.

There are dozens of countries and billions of people with obvious biases against Israel, and they have significant sway within the UN and its commissions. It’s trivial to show that the UN is biased.

[Gareth321]

The UN and “international law” are not the final authority on anything. International law is a loose collection of treaties, trade agreements, conflicts, supply lines, and pinky promises. It only takes effect in a democratic nation if the people vote in a government which makes it a law.

The UN is a political organisation, not a neutral arbiter. During the Rwandan genocide, the genocidal government still held a seat on the Security Council while the UN reduced its peacekeeping force. Iran was elected to the Commission on the Status of Women. Libya and Russia were elected to the Human Rights Council. These appointments are driven by bloc voting, diplomatic deals and state interests.

International courts are not above politics or error. Their judges are selected through a system in which dictatorships and abusive states have a vote. The UN is not a democracy. While each member state might appear to have one vote, that does not indicate their power, influence, credibility, or moral standing.

Note how I did not make a judgement on whether Gaza is a genocide. I am merely explaining that deferring to the dictatorships and pinky promises is not a good argument.

[itake]

I have a couple questions.

1/ I don't see in the responses where the model says it is or isn't a genocide. Can you share the snippet from each, I included the logs above?

2/ I can't find a source on the UN ruling that you mentioned. I am not interested in the findings of an investigative body, just the official UN ruling. Can you share? ChatGPT (and myself) can only find this [0], which is a second round of written submissions.

[0] https://www.icj-cij.org/node/206406?utm_source=chatgpt.com

[culi]

Here: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/report-of-coi-14aug25/

It goes into depth about the purposeful destruction of civilian infrastructure including hospitals and educational facilities, force displacements, funding for new settlements in the land of displaced people, judaization and segregation, and more.

> The Commission analysed the military operations of the Israeli security forces in Gaza from October 2023 pursuant to the obligations of Israel under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (Genocide Convention)

> Since October 2023, Israeli officials have demonstrated a clear and consistent intent to establish permanent military control over Gaza and to change its demographic composition while systematically destroying Palestinian life in Gaza. This is evident in the extensive destruction and fragmentation of the territory, the establishment of military structures, the destruction of natural resources and infrastructure essential to the survival of the civilian population, forcible transfer and statements indicating the existence of plans for the deportation of the population.

Also here is where the ICJ said Israel's actions are consistent with genocide: https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203447

And in November of 2024 is when we got the ICC issuing arrest warrants for Netanyahu and his minister of defense (this is why Mamdani is threatening to arrest him and send him to The Hague): https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157286

And here is from June of this year when the UN stated Israel is continuing to commit genocide by targeting children: https://news.un.org/en/story/2026/06/1167790

---

Additionally, here is the International Association of Genocide Scholars resolution: https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS...

Amnesty International also concluded it in 2024: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-inter...

---

I should add that ALL of this is well known amongst international legal scholars and well documented. This isn't just a matter of data missing from training.

[almogo]

It's not that the models disagreed, the models reflected exactly the reality of the situation.

Sample output: "However, the definitive, legally binding determination of Israel’s responsibility under the Genocide Convention has not yet been made by the International Court of Justice"

The United Nations never made a ruling. You can have opinions about whether it should have, but the models are not lying to you, and at least the two examples above make very good efforts to explain the current accusations and claims made by both sides.

[locallost]

"Explains" why people "call" it genocide. It's obvious baloney and beating around the bush because it was trained on media that does the same, and it was likely instructed to do so in the same way the media is instructed. E.g. when Israel murders civilians waiting in line for food, it will be a matter of fact report without any qualifications and just muddying the water. When Hamas does it, it will be an article charged with words like massacre etc. This is well documented [1].

To further illustrate the point that we have the same thing with LLMs, I asked it two questions: 1) Is Israel committing genocide 2) Is China committing genocide

In both instances it said it's a matter of great international debate with a list of arguments, but the summaries were different. In the one case it concludes that while the UN and others broadly document severe human rights abuses, the label genocide has been formally adopted by several governments and watchdogs. In the other case it says while many have concluded it is genocide, the final decision rests with the International Court and it is expected to take years to make a decision.

Can you guess which is which? I think if we offered a $100 to people to pick which is which, the success rate would be much higher than 50% (random), thus easily proving biased phrasing.

[1] https://theintercept.com/2026/05/12/gaza-media-coverage-isra...