[areoform]

A study in contrasts,

I signed up my business with Hetzner. And the first thing I saw during onboarding was a demand to upload my ID to spend $5 to test their service (I was testing before we bought). I wrote to customer service and got,

    Dear Client,
    
    We received your email. Thanks for writing to us.
    
    You have probably realized that this is an automated message.
    
    We need some time to process each email that we receive, but we will write back to you personally as soon as we can.
    
    Kind regards

    Hetzner Online GmbH
    [...]
    www.hetzner.com

Digital Ocean? They just let me do it.

Guess where I'm going to recommend spending our money?

[mft_]

If your entire business decision is driven solely by an emotional response to Hetzner having a policy that needs ID, maybe you’re not the right person to be making these sort of decisions?

[akersten]

> emotional response to Hetzner having a policy that needs ID

It seems to me more like smart business tact, figuring out early on whether your infrastructure provider will be easy to work with or a bureaucratic pain in the ass

[mft_]

Not from a single data point. You have no way of knowing whether this is, on the one hand, a single reasonable request or, on the other, the start of a pattern of bureaucratic pain.

[inigyou]

Can you name one B2B contract you have that didn't require any identification of you or your business?

[cryo32]

I haven't found a competent supplier who doesn't want to know who you are.

I entirely exclude Digital Ocean from competent suppliers.

[p-e-w]

Just because a company wants to know who you are doesn’t mean they are entitled to a scan of a sensitive government document that can be used to commit identity theft.

I’m amazed that it is even legal for businesses to ask for that at all, outside of a few exceptional cases of which “I want to rent a server” most certainly isn’t one.

[msdz]

> I’m amazed that it is even legal for businesses to ask for that at all, outside of a few exceptional cases of which “I want to rent a server” most certainly isn’t one.

How about the case of “I want to rent a server to distribute illicit and or dangerous materials and then it’s your problem”?

[areoform]

    > How about the case of “I want to rent a server to distribute illicit and or dangerous materials and then it’s your problem”?

Why would it be?

And are we going to use "because terrorism" card on HN?

[msdz]

Yeah, I think that’s the one case where it’s actually appropriate to use that card.

Like it or not, banks are legally mandated to do KYC, and this is essentially the same, except for information or communication being “moved” instead of money.

[inigyou]

It's a foreign concept to Americans but in Europe everyone is supposed to be able to be held accountable. That means a lot more things are KYC. You need ID to get a SIM card or a drone.

[Ralfp]

Why can't they say "we got payments from this and this payment card" and then they can follow up with the bank?

[throw1234567891]

They ask me for it when I need a sim card. What is the difference.

[inigyou]

None, and I think it's actually the very same law, all internet connections must be KYCed.

[gmueckl]

It's rather an indicator of a system that is so broken that a digital copy of a single form of ID document is sufficient to impersonate someone well enough to do financial damage.

[drstewart]

>I haven't found a competent supplier who doesn't want to know who you are.

Thank you! Say this louder for all the people saying VPN providers shouldn't have your government issued ID on file to use them.

As you point out, Mullvad VPN and the like are NOT competent suppliers and should NOT be trusted, as you correctly point out.

[cryo32]

I know this is facetious, but Mullvad funded fascism. So you're right anyway.

[zulban]

What's wrong with DO? Been happily using them for over a decade.

[cryo32]

Sudden account closure. Bad neighbours. IP blocks on DO ranges all over the place randomly. Egress email is painful.

[mr_toad]

AWS, GCP, Azure don’t care either.

[cryo32]

AWS does care. You have to sign up with a credit card and verify a phone number. And if you want to spend serious money you have to actually provide business documentation.

[raverbashing]

Yes but not for initial $5

[throw1234567891]

Sure. That’s why they call you to verify that you open a new account. That’s why they ask me for company information. Because they don’t care…

[rafram]

They verify a phone number, but you can use the same number on as many accounts as you want, and it's just a verification code.

[throw1234567891]

Yeah, for which I had to identify myself with an ID with a picture and an address on it!

[chpatrick]

Hetzner if you have sense.

[sparkling]

To be fair: all hosting providers deal with A LOT of abuse happening on their systems. Malware being hosted, people abusing trial periods ands free plans etc.

No sure if requiring a ID upfront is the perfect solution (if i recall, i never had to provide a ID on my private or business Hetzner accounts) but it isn't just there to annoy you.

[andor]

Low friction is cool but it leads to tons of abuse

[altairprime]

This reads like an ad for Hetzner. Thanks, antispam experience!

[throw1234567891]

In a hostile jurisdiction, I suppose based on your argument.

[Havoc]

The German providers have always been more aggressive on KYC & simply saying no to potential clients in some cases.

[duckerduck]

When was this? I signed up recently and don't remember this requirement.

[KingOfCoders]

What works best for you I guess.

[sam_lowry_]

Welcome to Europe, the land of sustainable business. We do not need to grow just to pollute our planet and die a painful death, individually and as a species.

If you still think your Hetzner registration process is convoluted, try getting a license for IDA Pro.

You'll love the experience, I promise.

!/s

[inigyou]

Yeah I've noticed that while America takes the approach of trying to keep your personal information secret, Europe takes the approach of requiring it to be shared around, but also protecting it with harsh laws for misuse. Things that are anonymous sign-up in America are KYC in Europe.

[ThePhysicist]

DigitalOcean simply does this at a later stage and will then just cut you off, Hetzner is doing it from the start. Their obligations aren't so different, they just approach this differently. It's the same thing with Stripe, it's cool that they just let you sign up and process transactions but at some point they will look at your business and if they don't like it they will just cut you off.

Also Hetzner really doesn't care much about individuals as far as I know, they mostly do business with other businesses and that's where the money is, their business is not designed to handle millions of individual users, DigitalOcean might also simply have a different strategy there.

[inigyou]

Hetzner is totally fine with individuals, they're probably sad to get less money but they don't care. Remember that in Germany a GmbH company costs $25,000, and if you're not a GmbH you're (in most cases) an individual sole trader.

They're also a bit picky with who they allow to sign up and they discriminate by country of origin. I had no problem being from a first world country with a passport, but I've heard the horror stories. If you're from Asia or Africa you may have an issue - if you have a registered business (even a sole tradership) in Europe, that would probably help convince them.

[raverbashing]

Count on German companies to make things more complicated than they need and to squander clients for minor nitpicks

[inigyou]

Name one B2B relationship you have where you didn't provide ID of you or your business.

[raverbashing]

Not at an initial sign up and minor spend

Companies usually know how to handle customers

(Yes some do want to verify the customer for every single purchase - but I usually skip those)

[inigyou]

Name one

[raverbashing]

lol

AWS, DigitalOcean for a start

And many others I've used and never bothered me or ask for ID