[raytopia]

Nearlyfreespeech is a great service though not a 100% independent as your still relying on them. I think the closest you can get to 100% independent without running your own internet infrastructure is either port forwarding from your home (if allowed) or hosting a website through TOR which isn't too hard. You just have to download the browser and edit a config file (torrc) with the port you want on the network. Not ideal of course though because anyone who wants to visit your website will need the tor browser and explaining to people that your website is on the "dark web" is a little hard to do.

I am a little surprised that doing so isn't more popular on in the indie web scene though as you do it on hardware you own, from your home, and the tor network protects people from knowing your servers ip address if that's something you care about. You could even go to your domain provider and have one of your domains redirect to your .onion address so people don't need to memorize it.

There also used to be the beaker browser which let you create and host your own website directly from the browser but that project got shut down. Hopefully something similar will show up at some point. Maybe a website creating plugin for tor would be enough to make it more popular.

[smalltorch]

+1. Why even pay the penny? Spinning a onion service is trivial...and...more secure than the clearwebz.

I've made a few easy to spin up services. Heck, you can even run it off your phone.

Nanogram https://gitlab.com/here_forawhile/nanogram

Spreadsheet Server https://gitlab.com/here_forawhile/spreadsheet

Library Server https://gitlab.com/here_forawhile/libraryserver

Torum (HN Clone) https://gitlab.com/here_forawhile/torum

[pastel8739]

I wonder if the fact that you linked to clear web source code links rather than onion links demonstrates why people might pay the penny…

[smalltorch]

Making something as easy as possible to try demonstrates why you need to pay a penny? I don't follow.

[pastel8739]

Yes, exactly. Because if you’d paid that penny for a server on the regular internet you would just link to the real site

[dspillett]

Perhaps. Perhaps not…

A source repo link often gets more traction here than a link to what might turn out to be a closed, probably subscription based, service. The repo's main readme likely links direct to the product/ service/other main location [if the forge isn't being used as that] or demo location [if a public demo instance exists] should that be where I want to go immediately.

Though maybe posting both the repo link and a "live" link would be better still.

[smalltorch]

I just happen to not self-host my own code base. But your acting like I paid a penny for that, and self hosting git isn't possible, and we aren't on a forum which exists on the commercial internet.

[rglullis]

What a silly deflection. The point is obvious: if it is as trivial as you are saying, why aren't you self-hosting?

[QuantumNomad_]

> You could even go to your domain provider and have one of your domains redirect to your .onion address so people don't need to memorize it.

Apparently [1] there are also ways that Tor Browser supports, for directing visitors to the onion address via the “normal” internet:

- Onion-Location

> The Onion-Location method was introduced on Tor Browser 9.5 as a way for service operators announce their Onion Services in their regular HTTPS sites. It's specified under tor-browser-spec's Proposal 100 - "Onion redirects using Onion-Location HTTP header".

- Alt-Svc

> Similar to Onion-Location, the Alt-Svc method also uses an HTTP Header (the Alt-Svc Header, specified by RFC 7838), which means that the user first need to access the regular site before their browser discovers the alternate Onion Service address.

> But contrary to Onion-Location, the Alt-Svc method:

> - Does not support an HTML tag, as it relies entirely in the Alt-Svc Header.

> - Is fully transparent: all the discovery and upgrade happens automatically, without user intervention.

- Additionally, they also speak of future possibilities for DNS or DNSSEC-based Onion Association.

[1]: https://onionservices.torproject.org/research/proposals/usab...

[crtasm]

You can see it in action by visiting e.g. https://www.qubes-os.org/ in tor browser

[rglullis]

Perfect is enemy of the good. Like you said, the only way to be truly independent if people ran their own infrastructure, and if all the hardware was as 100% FOSS.

Of all the compromises we have to do (relying on Telco providers, equipment manufacurers, etc), using Nearlyfreespeech is the less risky one. They have no history of abusing the trust users have placed on them, and service costs virtually nothing.

[inigyou]

The internet isn't even capable of handling 8 billion people each with their own infrastructure. Even if everyone got IPv6 and their own PI address block, most DFZ routers can't handle that many routing table entries. Pooling resources is mandatory for the internet to work. However, there needs to be (and are) plenty of choices of who to pool with, so that you can find a trustworthy one.

[iamnothere]

Note: you don’t need to “download the browser” to use Tor. Tor is a service, not a browser. The “Tor Browser” bundles a privacy-friendly browser with the Tor service, for your convenience. You can run a Tor site on your headless server without installing any browser at all.

[pibaker]

Few people host their websites as hidden services because it's just asking too much from anyone who uses your site.

Imagine you are in a conversation with a stranger. You want to show him your personal website. Consider the following two sentences. Which has the highest probability of actually helping him getting on your website?

"Go to myfirstnamelastname.com. Yeah, it's spelled with a K."

"Go to $FIFTYSIXRANDOMCHRACTERS.onion. Oh you need to use the onion browser. Let me help you install it on your phone. Can't find the service? Oh my bad it's actually $FIFTYSIXRANDOMCHARACTERS.onion. There you go."

[miki123211]

With port forwarding, somebody else still owns the identifier that points to your website, whether that's a domain name or an IP address.

[andai]

Nah, then you're still dependent on Tor. The most independent way is to publish your blog on your own p2p network ;)

[fsflover]

Tor is not a single point of failure: It is a p2p network.

[andai]

That's what I meant. How can you claim to be independent if you aren't even running your own network?

[fsflover]

There is no need to be completely independent. This is just not feasible. What you need is as much decentralization as possible.

[inigyou]

How many directory authorities does Tor have and how many are needed for a consensus?

[Krei-se]

i host myself with 2 fixed IPs from telekom germany business, its not as expensive as one might expect, under 90€ for a fiber and vdsl line, so next to hosting your own auth ns servers and mail you get failover at home which is nice.

[inigyou]

Deutsche Telekom is well known as one of the worst ISPs due to their peering policy. Basically all traffic in or out of DT to/from another ISP is either paid by that ISP at extortionate rates, or takes circuitous routes to avoid paying extortionate rates. For this reason I believe they should be boycotted.

This is a common pattern for ex-national carriers in many countries btw - they believe they should be paid by both sides for all traffic that traverses their network, not just by one side, because they feel like they are God of the Internet in that country.

[loloquwowndueo]

> port forwarding from your home

Not 100% independent then. You still depend on your isp.

[wpm]

Indeed. I also depend on my power company, the entire global supply chain to provide me with computers to purchase, copper mines for the networking cables I use, oil fields all over the globe for the plastic, etc etc etc.

[QuantumNomad_]

Something, something, if you want to make an apple pie from scratch you first have to invent the universe.

[abc123abc123]

Incorrect, you need to invent the inventor of the universe.