[embedding-shape]

Is it common in American factories to have US flags hanging on the walls similar to how dictators like to hang their portraits in factories? Never seen that in the (admitted small amount) of factories I've visited around in Europe, but tends to also give off a bit of "too much nationalism" vibe around here unless there is a special event, the US flag seems to be treated differently in the US so maybe it's a common sight?

[sph]

I keep forgetting that there is a requirement to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in US schools [1], which is just mind-boggling to me, and it's never something they proudly advertise through their propaganda arm of Hollywood. In hundreds of US-produced shows set in US schools, that detail is always conveniently omitted.

Here's how it works for the non-Americans of us:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all," should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.

Remembering this often-forgotten detail puts a lot of US culture and behaviour in perspective. Also let's not forget the Bellamy salute, in use for 50 years until 1942: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

---

1: and in congressional sessions, government meetings at local levels, and meetings held by many private organizations, according to Wikipedia

[TheCleric]

> I keep forgetting that there is a requirement to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in US schools

There most certainly is not. The pledge is common in schools but the Supreme Court has ruled no one is required to participate and cannot be punished for non-participation. Is it still weird? Sure. But it’s not required.

[smallmancontrov]

"Not required" but my teachers made it abundantly clear what they thought of being forced to allow ungrateful troublemakers to disrespect their country.

I always disliked the Pledge and began to strongly dislike it after moving away from the religion it tries to establish as the national religion, but I was keenly aware that picking this fight would cost me considerable political capital and chose not to.

[Hizonner]

Somehow nobody ever bothers to mention to the kids that it's not required.

How many schools still do it, though? Honestly you could tell me it was almost universal or very rare, and I'd have to believe you either way.

Of course, Canada was doing the freaking Lord's Prayer in schools until freaking 1988. I don't know about other countries, but wouldn't be surprised.

[ryandrake]

In the US schools I'm familiar with, it's "not required" kind of like how it's not required to attend meetings at work. Nobody's forcing you, but it will be noticed and there will be consequences.

[embedding-shape]

> there will be consequences

What sort of consequences? I'm guessing the US got rid of corporal punishment, and since it's optional, could they give like detention and stuff for it? Or is this more about being bullied/similar by peers?

[kube-system]

When I was in school decades ago, the consequences were that the teacher would single you out and scold you to “follow directions”, maybe they’d do whatever write up for not following directions. I’m sure in some places kids got detention or letters sent home to their parents, etc.

Also the US did not get rid of corporal punishment entirely, the south still has it in some places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment_in_...

[opan]

I had to do the pledge in early elementary school. It didn't continue forever. Not sure if people still do it. I do agree it's disturbing. Interestingly we once read a book in school that featured a character who refused to say the pledge and got in trouble for it. IIRC it was a case of "you aren't technically required to do this but they'll give you a hard time if you're the only one not doing it".

[falsemyrmidon]

I stopped doing it when I was in high school (I just stood there) and no one cared. This would have been about 22 years ago

[fnord77]

It didn't seem mind-boggling during the cold war. But I guess it does now.

[arcbyte]

In general, we Americans really, really love our country. Our flag still represents values tied closely to our revolutionary war and and independence. Obviously the flag gets wrapped around all sorts of causes, even contradictory ones, but that core kernel of shared values is truly universal.

So as individuals we choose to fly the flag a lot.

[hdgvhicv]

And if you don’t worship the flag in just the right way you suffer the consequences.

[arcbyte]

Well we dont really like it when you burn the flag in protest if thats one of the alternate worships you are suggesting.

[Scroll_Swe]

I much prefer this over how scared we are here in Sweden of our own flag.

[jodrellblank]

> "but that core kernel of shared values is truly universal."

Which values? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." does not seem to be upheld very strongly in the USA.

What about women's rights and abortion upturned by the current government, why are Black Lives Matter protests against police brutality needed 50 years after Martin Luther King, what about thousands of people disappeared by Trump's ICE, what about the enormous wealth inequality where the wealthy seem to be a lot more 'equal' than the plebs, what about nobody being punished for the 2008 financial crisis or the Epstein events or the Jan 6th attempted coup? Or the unwillingness of so many people to wear masks during COVID out of respect for their fellow Americans?

How can you claim a "core kernel of universal shared values" without nation-wide universal health care, workers rights, liveable minimum wage, things that demonstrate a fundamental belief in equality and shared values??

[arcbyte]

The values you exactly stated:

> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

[ExoticPearTree]

> How can you claim a "core kernel of universal shared values" without nation-wide universal health care, workers rights, liveable minimum wage, things that demonstrate a fundamental belief in equality and shared values??

Because the US shared values are not your values. Everything you mentioned are socialist pipe dreams, especially the equality one. None of us are equal to each other. Some of us are good at something, others at something else. This equality crap needs to die rather sooner than later.

[baby]

Make America Great Again!

[haunter]

I'm not american but afaik it's very common. The US is on a different level though, see the flags in the suburbia, the pledge of allegiance in school's every morning etc.

But I'd say it's not "too much nationalism" rather the average american is defintiely more patriotic than an average european (who can then again be anyone from the UK to Poland to Moldova) but you get my point

[sgc]

I am American who has lived in many countries around the world, and I think this is distinctly wrong and the source of many problems in the US.

It would be more correct to say that the average American values outward displays of nationalism more, and has a more negative perception of those who do not appreciate or want to participate in those displays than people in most other countries. And yes, they conflate this with 'patriotism'. However, this is almost completely performative and lacks real substance, as is proven by the typically far more selfish attitude towards their fellow citizens, and is exemplified by the constant historical failures to provide significant funding for projects designed to help rather than harm others.

Europeans and people from other countries around the world are often fiercely in love with their countries. They just tend not to love the idea of noisily jumping up to gaudily beat their own drum. So yes, the average American thinks they are more nationalistic, when in fact they are just more tribal and crude about their nationalism than what is typically found in other countries around the world. If only our nationalism were taken a bit more seriously than our affiliation with a sports team, which is in theory just for fun and entertainment, that would be an improvement.

[ieatcandlewax]

I disagree with this, I've noticed that the countries rising to prominence are quite nationalistic and the ones fading into obscurity are very post-national.

> Europeans and people from other countries around the world are often fiercely in love with their countries.

I would also disagree with this, I think it's profoundly uncool to love your country in many parts of Europe—think the UK and especially Germany.

The Europeans that did actually fiercely love their country that I've met were all Poles or Serbs that were gaudily beating their own drum.

What problems do you think arise from nationalism in it's current form in the US?

[lmm]

> I think it's profoundly uncool to love your country in many parts of Europe—think the UK and especially Germany.

I think that's because you're focusing on outward displays in exactly the way GP was talking about. It's profoundly uncool to be a flag-shagger, but Brits do very much love their country deep down, in the ways that really matter.

[baby]

I don't think they value displaying nationalism more, nationalists tend to be very vocal and visible, it's just that the US is full of nationalists. It really is the biggest issue with the US, and why the orange man is president.

[sgc]

I think you missed my point, which is that in the US, people typically described as nationalists tend to be pseudo-nationalists who value pomp and ceremony, but not substantial concrete actions to better their country or actual real care and love for their fellow countrymen. In terms of percentage of the population who value and love their national identity, we are no different than anywhere else.

See https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2026/02/17/what-makes-peo... and especially note that the US is one of the top countries for percentage of population with primarily negative views of their country, at 20%.

[altcognito]

Leadership in European countries is so routinely in conflict with their people who understand the inalienable rights of the people so well. I wonder where that comes from.

You're not wrong that the American public is largely out of touch with the fundamentals of a free society.

[gchamonlive]

> Leadership in European countries is so routinely in conflict with their people

> I wonder where that comes from.

> Leadership

Democracy is great but that elected leaders seek reelection at the expense of the common folk isn't something new, those in power will naturally seek more power.

The problem is that Americans look at vulnerable people and billionaires like they individually deserved their fate. The cult of merit.

[baby]

If the current events don't make you think it's not nationalism, then I'm wondering what nationalism even is

[esseph]

Nationalism is just one of the many vehicles here used to try and grow power and influence by people that seek it. For many in power it's not even real nationalism - it's not love for the country and the people in it, it's a type of tribal drum beat. It's just a symbol to attach to.

[lotsofpulp]

When I was younger, I would have thought that, but now I have trouble distinguishing nationalism and white supremacism when I see enthusiastic usage of flags/pledges.

[Hizonner]

Patriotism is soft nationalism, and any of either is too much.

[ImPostingOnHN]

It is not uncommon to have national and state flags, but it is not similar to how dictators like to hang their portraits. It is meant more to show pride of what you build together as a people, rather than to evoke fear and obeisance.

That said, this may have also been a photo op, and given the image is from texas, there are probably portraits of a dictator hanging around, too.

[johannes1234321]

Also he dictatorship are (officially) pride of doing their work for the state as Americans work multiple jobs in fear of losing their paychecks, their health insurance.

[ImPostingOnHN]

Do you really think someone waving their country's flag is the same as waving a flag with the face of a dictator? Worldwide?

[johannes1234321]

This thread was about omnipresent flag presence in factories and such. And the way it's done in America is different from many other countries.

[dismalaf]

Is it? The car dealership near where I grew up had a 100 foot tall pole with a Canadian flag at least 10 feet wide, probably more. And that's a car dealership... Flags were everywhere: gyms, offices, banks, schools, etc... Can't say I toured any factories to specifically know if they were there, but I'm guessing yes.

Of course now it's different, the flag is less common, to the point in my home province (Alberta) you see more Albertan flags than Canadian ones...

[ImPostingOnHN]

It was actually about the occasional presence of a flag in a factory, particularly in photo ops.

[projektfu]

It is common but I think these displays in the press release are for the photo. I would expect to see a large flag on a tall pole outside most large factories, but inside the decorations will range from bland, to company-oriented, to patriotic.

A defense plant probably has more outward signs of patriotism.

[esseph]

US flag is everywhere. Indoor weightlifting gyms, hanging inside large hangers for aircraft, in schools, factories outside your company HQ on the flagpole, etc.

[dismalaf]

In Canada it used to be common to have Canadian flags everywhere. It's only recently that we became a self-hating country.

> similar to how dictators like to hang their portraits

Insane comparison as the idea of a free country is fundamentally different than the cult of personality that dictators create.

[ExoticPearTree]

If you dig a little you will find that the US is a very nationalistic country, more so than even communist countries.

[baby]

The US is weird about its flag, I think because nationalism wasn't seen as a bad thing up until recently. These days it's much weirder to see an American flag, and usually you know it has something to do with MAGAs. The weird thing to me is how you see one massive one in the luggage retrieval area when you arrive in JFK (in New York). Always makes me sigh

[GenerWork]

>These days it's much weirder to see an American flag, and usually you know it has something to do with MAGAs. The weird thing to me is how you see one massive one in the luggage retrieval area when you arrive in JFK (in New York). Always makes me sigh

This has to be a troll post. Associating the US flag with MAGA? Sighing because a major international airport has a large flag hanging over the baggage area? Come on.

[esseph]

Yes. The right wing in the US has spent a lot of money and time co-opting the flag as a signal.

To not realize this to me means you either haven't been paying attention, or very much live in a bubble. This is not new.

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/07/02/...

https://www.newyorker.com/news/us-journal/the-changing-meani...

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/some-trump-supporters-...

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/14/style/donald-trump-americ...

More than half of US independent voters and more than 70% of Democrats believe the flag has right wing, negative connotations now. Only 26-27% of Democrats believe flying the flag would be seen in a positive light now.

https://www.politico.com/news/2026/07/05/poll-patriotism-pol...

[GenerWork]

>The right wing in the US has spent a lot of money and time co-opting the flag as a signal.

So the right wing overuses flag imagery, and as a result the left starts to view the flag as problematic? That's a Democrat/liberal problem.

>To not realize this to me means you either haven't been paying attention, or very much live in a bubble.

I pay attention and don't live in a bubble, and I still think it's absolutely absurd to let the overuse of your countries flag by a specific political group dictate how you feel about seeing said flag.

[esseph]

> So the right wing overuses flag imagery, and as a result the left starts to view the flag as problematic? That's a Democrat/liberal problem.

Independents too, which is larger that either the Democratic party or Republican party in the US.

It's only the Republicans that have a positive view of it at this point.

When you do awful shit and wrap yourself in symbology, surprise, good things like swastikas suddenly become symbols of hate and oppression that were not before. This is a pattern that repeats itself throughout history and across country lines.

[hybrid_study]

you have no idea. lol

[drnick1]

The fact that the European flag isn't seen anywhere in Europe tells you a lot about how people really feel about the E.U.

[picofarad]

People in these comments are saying the US flag just represents white supremacy to them now...

The media has really done a number on us, basically throughout the West. I don't know enough about other area's media to comment.

[crote]

In my country you, as a civilian, fly the national flag for the equivalent of July 4th, and for big personal events like graduations. Flag merchandise is of course also worn in support of the national sports teams.

Outside of that the main people flying national flags are government institutions, who usually have it up right next to a European flag and a flag of the institution, like a local municipality.

The European flag is also plastered over billboards next to all kinds of EU-funded construction projects, of course, and is on literally every single Euro bill.

So no, someone's feelings about an institution are not inherently linked to the success of its empty propaganda campaigns.

[usrusr]

I'm not a friend of nationalism, but I believe that it's a trade-off: of you want to be open to immigration, of the kind that pulls in newcomers, inviting them to become a part of the place they move to, instead of remaining outsiders, you have to give them plenty of opportunity to identify with their new home. Of course these days, we see the American flag used a lot in ways completely opposite to this, but that does not change the great progressive value national symbols could provide.