[sph]

How does it work if people flock to open models but they're too expensive to train? What is the financial incentive to do so?

I seem to understand open models are mostly coming from China, and the benefit of training and releasing them for 'free' is a powerful geopolitical weapon against the Western/US economy that at this point depends on OpenAI & co. to succeed.

Will the West make open models illegal?

[echelon]

> Will the West make open models illegal?

We better not.

> What is the financial incentive to do so?

If we'd been sharing all along (as we should have been), we probably would have gotten even further along in the development of the tech.

Think of everything we could do if every researcher on the planet had first class access to the frontier. No academic fallback models. No crude API access. No limits, but direct access to the weights and the ability to lobotomize, splice, and dice.

We could pour intelligence from one container to the next without paying a tax or wearing a blindfold. All without spilling a drop.

*Open* *Must* *Win*

[inigyou]

> No X. No Y. No Z, but Q

[Danox]

That would be strike one like putting tariffs on every country you disagree with, such a strategy would fail.

[surgical_fire]

If by West you mean the USA, maybe.

Other countries in the westen hemisphere, probably not.

[LorenDB]

"You wouldn't download an LLM"

[sph]

You wouldn't crash the stock market by preferring Chinese models.

[mcv]

I absolutely would. Let the bubble burst.

[dominotw]

so using glm will crash my stocks and make me poorer? damn. thats quite a high price to pay for use then

[Danox]

The bubble would burst for OpenAI, Anthropic, Oracle, and Microsoft…

[mcv]

It'd better happen sooner than later. This bubble is distorting everything and turning many executives insane. See https://ludic.mataroa.blog/blog/ai-mania-is-eviscerating-glo...

[mrandish]

> releasing them for 'free' is a powerful geopolitical weapon...

I agree that, currently, the Chinese govt is not only allowing but tacitly encouraging open weight model releases. However, I don't see it as an attack. I think it's more of a strategic delaying move to slow the revenue to frontier models while China works to catch up. This strategy will likely change over time.

> Will the West make open models illegal?

In the U.S. this seems highly unlikely due to the current administration's generally laissez-faire approach to tech as well as the U.S. constitution severely limiting the government's latitude to constrain economic activity.

As we saw with the temporary Mythos restriction, there are legal mechanisms to limit tech on certain grounds, but over time such limits are subject to close judicial and constitutional review. The Mythos embargo was also likely driven in part by the administration's anger at Anthropic for choosing to block the DoD from using their products for mass domestic surveillance and warfighting. I doubt we'll see any meaningful restrictions on OAI or other large companies. It'll be nearly 3 years before a different admin is in office and could enact serious limits and by then it will be too late for fundamental bans.

There are vested interests in most governments, such as intelligence agencies, law enforcement and the military, who would prefer to restrict some AI from broad use. As we saw with strong encryption, they'll only be able to delay and constrain, not stop, such a broadly useful dual-use tech. The geopolitical, economic, competitive and civil liberty interests are similar between strong encryption and AI, setting up a similar game theory dynamic. While it can be argued AI poses some potential danger, the specter of any such threat is abstract and not immediate.

On the other hand, the tech is obviously too economically essential and competitively vital to risk 'falling behind'. While there will certainly be attempts to ban, limit or constrain AI, the well-funded, highly organized commercial interests and civil libertarians will deploy lobbying, legal challenges and public opinion to ultimately prevail.

[bilbo0s]

In the U.S. this seems highly unlikely

Aren't these the same guys who won't even let us have Chinese cars?

I'm not as confident as you that they will keep allowing us access to technology as strategic as AI models out of China and elsewhere that undercut US models in the market.

To everyone reading, download open models from anywhere as soon as they are released. You really have no guarantee at all that access to those models won't be cut off in the future with the stroke of a President's pen. Those downloads are your insurance policy. You'll always be able to access whatever you've already downloaded.