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by aprilthird2021 11 days ago
That's not enough though. He could have been acting rogue or for some other reason. That alone won't win in court
2 comments

Among 40 ex Apple employees come on at least five or six of them probably crossed the line in their enthusiasm to get the big bucks.

If it was a small number, four or five total, maybe, but not 40.

Also, Apple confronted OpenAI about LOL Liu. OpenAI’s response wasn’t to fire him, conduct an investigation and confidentially settle with Apple. It was to go cold.
Why would they fire him and settle with Apple? If they haven't done anything wrong, why settle? If he hasn't used the material at work but has some problem with his former employer, why fire him?
> If they haven't done anything wrong, why settle?

One, because the evidence is damning–and comprehensive–against their interests, and OpenAI has a ticking clock around fundraising and going public that an ongoing lawsuit with Apple endangers.

Two, because based on all the facts in the public domain–and Sam Altman's documented history of lying–the likelihood of Apple succeeding on the merits of this case are high. Someone at OpenAI seems to have sensed this when they went cold on Apple's legal letters.

> If he hasn't used the material at work

The evidence presented shows Liu demonstrating a total lack of character and judgmeent, quite possibly to a criminal level. The fact that OpenAI is confused about why this is bad is their own condemnation.

> the evidence is damning–and comprehensive–against their interests

No it is not. An employee stole info from his former employer. There is no proof OpenAI asked for this or used it in any way. Employees could plausibly do such things thinking they will benefit over their peers at their new job without disclosing this to the new job.

> the likelihood of Apple succeeding on the merits of this case are high

Not if OpenAI hasn't actually solicited any of this or used any of that info. In discovery nothing will be found and the case will end there.

> The evidence presented shows Liu demonstrating a total lack of character and judgmeent, quite possibly to a criminal level

Character and judgment are not the most sought after qualities at a certain level of hard to recruit for work. They also might want to wait for the results of a trial to fire him as he could sue for wrongful termination if a court acquits him of stealing documents (still possible there could be evidentiary issues etc.)

"come on" isn't any kind of proof
"acting rogue" but faced no action from OpenAI after this came to light
Because it's part of an investigation. Again this isn't proof of anything. He may have not ever used this information at work yet and so this is an issue between him and his former employer
Can you share more details about the investigation?

Typically the staff member being investigated would be placed on administrative leave during a lawsuit like this, even if they did nothing wrong. The fact that it didn't happen makes me think the investigation isn't being conducted properly.

They are currently in a suit with Apple over this. If they fire him and Apple loses the suit and a jury decides he didn't even steal documents (a possible outcome) then he can sue for wrongful termination.
Administrative leave isn't firing him. He still has access to manipulate the internal investigation, which will be argued by Apple's lawyers.