[JumpCrisscross]

I don’t think Cupertino will settle for stock. I think they’ll demand cash and an agreement that OpenAI abandon or reboot their hardware project. In the meantime, Apple gets an open kimono into everything OpenAI has planned.

This could actually be the fuckup that kills OpenAI as an independent company. The threat of a cash judgement gums up not only an IPO, but also debt-based fundraising. (We equity guys are idiots, so we’ll probably keep writing cheques until the market turns.)

[thewebguyd]

> reboot their hardware project

This could go way beyond any potential hardware project, depending on whats actually true from the allegations and how much of Apple's trade secrets have been used or shared within OpenAI.

There were rumors a while back of OpenAI building some integrations into macOS akin to the Shortcuts app, and who knows what other computer use type projects. They could very well have been using information from within Apple for that.

It's kind of a fruit of a poisonous tree problem. If OpenAI used any of Apple's secrets broadly, Apple could ask the court for an injunction to block the deployment of any software from OpenAI. If discovery proves the IP contamination spread into other areas within OpenAI, it could completely freeze all of their deployments.

If Apple actually has the receipts here they could realistically bring down OpenAI entirely.

[senordevnyc]

If OpenAI used any of Apple's secrets broadly, Apple could ask the court for an injunction to block the deployment of any software from OpenAI. If discovery proves the IP contamination spread into other areas within OpenAI, it could completely freeze all of their deployments.

I find this so funny. Can you share an example or two of where something like this has ever happened to one of the largest companies in the world? There is no universe where some judge orders that OpenAI can no longer deploy any software, for anyone (including huge swaths of the federal government) because of the alleged actions of a few people, and it’s allowed to stand. Zero chance.

I’ll say one thing for Sama: he might have a lot of haters, but it’s not that hard to prove them wrong with predictions like these.

[thewebguyd]

> Can you share an example or two of where something like this has ever happened to one of the largest companies in the world?

Waymo (Google) vs. Uber & Anthony Levandowski. Google was granted an injunction that ordered Uber to immediately halt all development on self driving tech.

Apple also bankrupted Pystar for stealing trade secrets.

Levandowski would have served actual jail time if he didn't get a pardon.

Property rights and trade secret laws don't just magically vanish because a company has government contracts or a high valuation.

[senordevnyc]

That’s not true! Only Levandowski was barred from working on self-driving, the judge specifically elected NOT to force Uber to stop all self-driving work [1], let alone stop all software work, let alone this being anything that was a mortal threat to Uber. Uber was also worth about $50 billion at the time, about 1/20th the size of OpenAI.

The point isn’t that an injunction is impossible, but the idea that Apple will get an injunction that shuts down all software deployments at OpenAI, leading to the end of the company, is pure fantasy.

1. https://www.wired.com/2017/05/uber-waymo-injunction/

[senordevnyc]

This take seems wildly disconnected from reality.

My prediction: this will result in a relatively modest undisclosed settlement and OpenAI won’t abandon, or even modify, their hardware product because of this. And Apple definitely won’t get an “open kimono” to everything OpenAI has planned.

This is two of the largest, most powerful, most well-capitalized companies on the planet in a legal fight. People are taking sides because of their hatred of Sama, and it results in these bizarro takes that OpenAI is finished as a company lol.

Guess we’ll see.

[quickthrowman]

> This is two of the largest, most powerful, most well-capitalized companies on the planet in a legal fight.

OpenAI being well-capitalized made me laugh out loud, thanks for the humor :)

Apple has a ridiculous amount of cash, AA credit, and makes $100B of net income per year. OpenAI has none of those attributes, what they do have is investors willing to bankroll them, for now.

[senordevnyc]

OpenAI just closed the largest funding round in SV history, $122 billion. The idea that you’d find it laugh out loud funny to call them well-capitalized just reveals your bias.

OpenAI has plenty of cash to fight this. Apple having hundreds of billions doesn’t actually mean anything in a legal fight that might cost OpenAI nine figures in legal fees, maybe? If it goes for years?

A historic judgment against OpenAI (zero chance of that here) might actually drive them out of business, but they’re far beyond the threshold of being well-capitalized enough to fight Apple on this for years.

This is a nothingburger.

[JumpCrisscross]

> OpenAI just closed the largest funding round in SV history, $122 billion

Chips don’t pay legal bills.

[the_lucifer]

> most well-capitalized companies

Huh what? Since when is OpenAI's IOU's and paper money worth more than Apple's cold hard cash? They have been backing away from their infrastructure commitments and literally pushing their IPO out.

Their "value" might fly with idiot VC's that are willing to throw money at them based on vibes. They are "big" on paper, nothing close to the financial heft of Apple. If anything this is where Sam Altman’s reality-distortion-field isn't going to fly.

> ... it results in these bizarro takes that OpenAI is finished as a company lol.

Meanwhile there's repeated news of OpenAI barely making ends meet and poised to run out of money mid next year. Unfortunately, OpenAI being 'well-capitalized' just doesn't hold up to what we've been actively seeing.

[senordevnyc]

How much do you think they actually need to fight this?

BP spent a billion on defense attorneys for Deepwater Horizon. There’s a zero percent chance it costs OpenAI anywhere close to that to fight this, but even if it did, a billion over the next few years wouldn’t even be a speed bump for them.

[an0malous]

> This could actually be the fuckup that kills OpenAI as an independent company.

I wonder if they’ll be the Lehman Brothers of this bubble

[the_lucifer]

> I wonder if they’ll be the Lehman Brothers of this bubble

That's exactly what this Yahoo Finance article today calls them at least [1]

[1]: https://finance.yahoo.com/technology/ai/articles/lehman-brot...

[an0malous]

Can’t wait to see all these libertarian venture capitalists begging for another government bailout