[RossBencina]

The "a better C" meme needs to die. It's ill defined. Everyone wants something different. For me, GC disqualifies any language as a better C. Bjarne Stroustrup promoted C++ as a better C. But C++ killed off some of C's killer low-level features like type-punning via unions. Indeed it's only in recent years that low-level memory manipulation, such as std::start_lifetime_as and the implicit lifetime rules were standardised. The whole strict aliasing fiasco made C and C++ permenantly worse. Some people say Zig is a better C, but it is certainly not a minimal language, if that's how you define better. For me a better C would have an abstract model that matched machine-level memory access (i.e. no type-based alias analysis) would be as minimal as C in terms of feature set, would clean up C warts like operator precedence, and would be as deterministic as possible (e.g. deterministic memory layout, including bit fields, would be possible without hacks)...

[cjs_ac]

Everyone agrees C has problems, but there’s no consensus on what those problems are. People build ‘better Cs’ to solve the problems they see in the language, and offer them to the community for the benefit of those who share their tastes.

It’s perfectly fine for you to disagree with them, but it’s also perfectly fine for them to publish their solutions to their problems.

‘A better C’ is a good description for these projects. ‘The better C’ would not be.

[arnsholt]

John Regehr tried to start an initiative to make what he called Friendly C, removing some of the most blatant C footguns, and even that turned out to be extremely hard to get consensus on: https://blog.regehr.org/archives/1287

[kfreds]

What do you think of Ada's representation clauses and Zig's packed structs? Do they give you the syntax and semantics for arrangement (ordering, padding, widths), endianness, and control of bit order that you want?

Also, thank you for an educational comment.

Edit: I forgot to ask about your thoughts on Ada's and Zig's type punning.

[DanielHB]

It also varies heavily on the kind of static analysis tools you are using in conjunction with your compiler. Some "bad" things about the language are just fine if they can be caught by the static analysis you are using.

It is a major problem with most really old languages, JS is notoriously prone to this kind of "remove the bad bits" thinking when in actuality most of those complaints are non-issues if you run a linter.

[awson]

> C++ killed off some of C's killer low-level features like type-punning via unions

Yet all major C++ compilers support it.