[kelnos]

Your argument boils down to "they've done something I find objectionable, so that means everything they say must be lies".

I'm not comfortable with how these models were trained. I have quite a bit of open source code out there, and I personally see such training as copyright and license laundering.

But that's not how the law sees it, and I grudgingly accept that, regardless of how I may feel, and I don't let my feelings on the matter make me think irrationally when it comes to whether or not these AI companies honor the terms they provide.

Sure, they might be breaking their promises, training on our data when they say they won't. But I do think they most likely aren't, and that it would be corporate suicide if they were and it ever came out.

[applfanboysbgon]

> But that's not how the law sees it

Anthropic paid several billion dollars to settle a lawsuit they were likely to lose. OpenAI is now about to get taken to the cleaners for corporate espionage against Apple. They do not give a fuck about the law. Paying $5 billion for some fines is a trivial cost of doing business when you're aiming for trillion-dollar IPOs.

> make me think irrationally when it comes to whether or not these AI companies honor the terms they provide.

Irrationality is thinking there's such a thing as honor and that companies which have repeatedly broken the law for data won't do it again when there's no enforcement mechanism that acts as a real deterrent.

[dash2]

Honour is not the relevant point. What's relevant is that breaking your TOS would give many large individual companies (a) a clear case to sue you and make a lot of money (b) a reason to avoid using you ever again, because who wants their data leaking into a potential competitor? Scraping the internet, as well as being much harder to adjudicate legally, also creates far fewer powerful companies with means, motive and opportunity to take you to court.

[bigyabai]

Their argument boils down to "they've done it once and nobody prevents them from doing it again"

This dog-and-pony-show is a rehash of the Pascal's wager we saw with smartphone security. Everyone thought it would be "corporate suicide" to hack an iPhone, but NSO Group did it. Apple sued NSO Group, and then settled out of court immediately after. Now we live in a post-hacking world and everyone pretends like this is an unavoidable necessary evil that corporations are powerless to stop. Suggesting litigation is a comically useless strategy because the law rubberstamps any form of useful surveillance or retention. Failing that, NSO Group has enough sycophant lobbyists to smear anyone that takes their threat seriously. Look at OpenAI and Anthropic and tell me that it's not the same hostage situation; can you?

You can do whatever stupid stuff you want to with your data. But this is an absurd amount of faith to give to guilty businesses, on the level of planning your world domination schemes over Skype.

[theplumber]

>> Your argument boils down to "they've done something I find objectionable, so that means everything they say must be lies".

Not at all. My point is that the every thing they do is quite questionable from business development to sales & marketing

[drowntoge]

> But that's not how the law sees it, and I grudgingly accept that

I think that is sort of their point. There was one thing that you, I, and millions of others would call infringement, (scraping the whole Internet to train proprietary models) but the law deemed it "fair use", and they got away with it with impunity. Now there is this other thing that we'd all (easily) call infringement, and I understand why people doubt that this time will be any different.