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by tjwebbnorfolk 12 days ago
Are you saying if someone gives you something for free, it's immoral if they don't continue giving it to you for free forever?

The children's book "if you give a mouse a cookie" was about exactly this phenomenon

8 comments

A more charitable reading of this comment is that you can make a game theoretical argument for these behaviors that doesn’t require altruism. And that argument therefore doesn’t preclude going closed at a later date.
“He’s only being good because he likes how it feels, or values goodness, or exists in a social context where doing the right thing is socially rewarded! That has no bearing on whether he, intrinsically, is good!”

Not to get all philosophical but this makes no sense outside of the context of a very specific post-Protestant, engagement/outrage-driven social media context.

If people are “only being good because it’s in their best interest” the last thing you should be doing is arguing against valuing good things, or making it impossibly difficult for someone capable of doing good to be trusted. Also literally the basis for Western (Plato, good as attractor state, res publica) and Eastern (kongzi, filial piety, social harmony) civilization btw.

If the cookie in this analogy is crack cocaine, then yes, I'd say it's immoral.
I think what they're saying is that any morality related arguments during the free phase are irrelevant because their actions are not based in morality. Put differently, they aren't giving you something for free out of the goodness of their hearts.
"The first hit is always free" - Your dealer
I think it’s one thing to give you something free forever, and another to deliberately foster dependency / suck all the oxygen out of the room just to abuse it.

It’s also not a binary thing. You could truly start off with the noblest intentions but succumb to lesser-evil thinking or unforeseen political/personal complexities, lose influence or control to those with less pure intentions, be bought or become a political pawn in a more extractive endeavor without realizing it, etc.

Reasonable adults generally understand that “free stuff” costs real time and money to provide, and that businesses can only sustain it when it helps them sell their products. Unfortunately that means “free” appeals most to people with lots of time, no money, or lacking in the reasoning/adulthood departments.

Nobody isn't giving anything to you for free
pretty sure the lesson of that book was for the boy, to not indulge freeloaders. not for the mouse, to not accept free services
In an extreme sense, yes. If the free stuff was given for a prolonged period of time with the expectation that it would continue indefinitely.

In modern terms, it's enabling others' pathological dependency on your free stuff.

The same way a normal parent would teach their child to become self sufficient instead of providing for them for their first 30 years of life and then tell them to figure out how to live after being used to not working.

I mean, it's pretty sad but there are examples of these things happening, and I definitely wouldn't say the parent is blameless for allowing this to happen.