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by blovescoffee 12 days ago
Excited for the deepseek release this week (or at least they announced they'd release this week). Hopefully they also push even closer to SOTA.
3 comments

That is exciting!

I don't understand how DeepSeek can be so cheap with their cache pricing - ~0.003 usd / 1Mtok. 100x less than Kimi K3, or similar numbers against pretty much any other decently sized model to my knowledge. I've been using it whenever possible as even longer agent sessions cost few cents.

If you read DeepSeek's papers, you'll find a litany of architectural features that allow for a greatly reduced cache hit price by shrinking the size of the KV-cache.
How come no other big model seems to be able to deliver the same type of extremely low cache cost though, if their techniques are public?
Why dont you think proprietary models use these optimization techniques and way more?

It very much possible Anthropic, OpenAI and Google able to serve their models much cheaper than their current API prices.

They just dont do it because they dont try to ubdercut each other and so far chinese models been percieved behind SOTA.

I think the "architectural features" are part of the model, not the kv cache. So implementing it would be difficult and expensive.
They can and almost certainly are doing similarly impressive engineering works internally.

They just aren't in any hurry to forward those cost savings to you.

Many of these techniques haven't been published very long ago - it often takes a good 6-8 months for techniques to percolate. But also, they come at a complexity cost and, seemingly, also at a stability cost.
Also potentially a performance (in terms of output quality) cost. DeepSeek is cheap on a per token basis but lags behind in the benchmarks, perhaps it was a calculated tradeoff.
To be fair Deepseek V4 now is just a preview, which likely implies training isn't completed.
Deepseek V4 paper is just ~three months old
What provider are you using?
DeepSeek's own API
Any way to avoid China sales tax or is that just the cost of doing business?
https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-pro#providers

Look through the provider list for a company you are willing to do business with?

Good grief, the sales tax is only 6% on a service that's already extremely affordable.
Fireworks.ai
I think I'd rather pay Chinese sales tax than work with Fireworks, but thank you for the suggestion.
it is ridiculous really. it is so cheap, that i can just run it basically 24/7.
Where did you hear about the deepseek release? Would love to follow the same source.
> Where did you hear about the deepseek release?

* Tons of gray testing going on for the last 2+ weeks (people at random getting the new v4 model for a while before its removed again).

* It also DeepSeek their 3th birthday this Friday.

* The its been almost 3 months from the v4 DeepSeek release, and the model everybody have been using, was not post-trained. That is what they have been doing during this time.

People trying out the new DSv4 via the web chat with quick game creation tests. People pulling out stuff like Stellaris clones etc.

https://cct124.github.io/HORIZON6_DEMO/

https://www.showyourcode.app/zh/share/pmpwkamrnai2ue

The Battlefront like game is impressive. Sure, the soldiers are backwards and the graphics are still kind of basic. But the entire movement system (run/walk/crouch/jump), gun mechanics, grenades, capture points, AI fighting / capturing back, etc ... Ended up playing it way too darn long lol The text is in mandarin but its not too hard to figure out the menu. Sniper is OP ;)

The Horizon 6 game has everywhere mesh colliders, shows when you off track dirt being kicked up, etc ... In general, both example are very well polished minus the reverse soldiers issue.

And the price is supposed to stay the same (beyond the doubling during Chinese workhours), because everybody got that update.

They emailed current paying users of the api (or at least that’s how I got updated).
Ohh I didn't know about it. Finally something to be excited about.