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by ghusto 16 days ago
Sorry, but I don't buy any of that. I've been defending Mozilla for years, but enough's enough.

> but all existing Firefox users would have to download a second Firefox browser app, probably sync their accounts if they want to keep their data, and then remove the old one manually. You'd end with a Google Meet/Microsoft Teams situation (where one app is labeled "new" and it confuses the hell out of everyone)

You're making it sound like a problem, but those actions are trivial. You tell someone who's dying for a non-webkit browser on iOS "well okay, but you know you'll have to download another browser! And even sign-in again!". You really think they care?

> Furthermore, developers cannot actually use the released app they've made if they're in the US, where a lot of Firefox devs are.

They absolutely can, because they're free to install development builds, which is what they should be testing anyway. Regardless, if development starts migrating slowly to the EU, that's a natural consequence.

> Then there's the (what I can only presume to be illegal) Apple Tax you need to pay to distribute an app outside of the app store

This is the only real issue, but even then I'd say Mozilla should take the money they're spending on their current nonsense and spend it here instead. "Our mission is to ensure the Internet is a global public resource, open and accessible to all". Really? Prove it. Furthermore, if we role over on this because of the obviously anticompetitive malicious complience Apple is showing, they win. This is the first step to getting them to remove that fee.

3 comments

> You tell someone who's dying for a non-webkit browser on iOS

Firefox has struggled to get the sliver of market share they have today. I highly doubt that there are that many people like you and me who crave a real Firefox engine on iOS.

> which is what they should be testing anyway

Having a large part of your team be unable to reproduce bugs is a significant development issue. Some of these operating system features are simply not available outside of the EU.

If it were as easy as you're suggesting, Mozilla would have already done it. Google would have already ported Blink over, or Brave, or whatever browser you prefer. So far I think only Ladybird is really trying to go for a custom browser engine, though app store distribution will be an issue until they can pass enough tests (as Apple has decided your browser is not a real browser if it doesn't pass a certain threshold of existing tests).

> Having a large part of your team be unable to reproduce bugs is a significant development issue

But I just said, they are free and able to use development builds, regardless of geographical location. As far as I know, the OS is exactly the same, just has certain things disabled depending on region (for example you can breifly see the iPhone mirroring in the EU the first time, before it disapears).

> Firefox has struggled to get the sliver of market share they have today. I highly doubt that there are that many people like you and me who crave a real Firefox engine on iOS.

Why bother with any of it then? If it's hopeless and not enough people want it, why even bother?

> I highly doubt that there are that many people like you and me who crave a real Firefox engine on iOS.

Let's put this another way, would many people be interested in a full blown adblocker like ublock origin? Because that's what I have on Firefox on Android.

With how few iOS users I see the existing content blockers already, shockingly few people as far as I can tell.

I want to see Brave and Firefox fight it off in an ad-blocking-mobile-browser competition to get some more market share, but it seems like iOS users are content with just Safari and ads.

Let me put it another way: why has no other browser company released a browser yet? Mozilla is only a small player, after all.

Yes but current content blockers aren't very effective on iOS.

I think the things mentioned in that open source report, basically Apple making it as hard as possible, plays a big role there.

> Firefox has struggled to get the sliver of market share they have today. I highly doubt that there are that many people like you and me who crave a real Firefox engine on iOS.

Egg on Apple's face for expending so much effort to deny so few people something they don't actually want.

So far market demand hasn't pushed Brave, Opera, Vivaldi, or anyone else in this direction. It's not just Mozilla, who is often late to these kinds of developments.
> I'd say Mozilla should take the money they're spending on their current nonsense and spend it here instead.

Mozilla makes roughly $500m per year with maybe $1.5b in the bank. That's about 1-2 orders of magnitude short of what would be required to poke Apple in the eye and make them feel it.

Yeah but what they'd be paying to Apple would be a tiny part of that.
> You're making it sound like a problem, but those actions are trivial. You tell someone who's dying for a non-webkit browser on iOS "well okay, but you know you'll have to download another browser! And even sign-in again!". You really think they care?

Yeah this, I honestly couldn't care less. On Android I have switched between nightly and regular several times. It's a 2 minute job.