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by theamk 13 days ago
I think the the second part was kinda obvious? The moment I read this:

> If you’re anything like me, you would probably have said Parallel Spawn, Prefer New, and Wait are perhaps defensible, whereas Prefer Old feels weird/backward.

it was pretty obvious I was not anything like him. My intuitive answers are pretty different.

- Parallel Spawn is useful, but it's orthogonal to the rest. Even if you have 4 workers, you'll still have to worry about hitting concurrency limit once you have enough jobs. What is it even doing in this list?

- Wait is very useful for non-scheduled tasks: if user uploaded 100 files to process, you better process them all. Sometimes you need limit, sometimes you do not (let them queue for a while until devops notices and either allocate more workers or clear them and has some harsh words with consumer).

For scheduled tasks, "Wait" seems much less useful. I can come up with a reason but they are all somewhat convoluted - perhaps you are hitting 3rd-party service, and it has a quota, so you've decided to use scheduler to avoid hitting ratelimits?

- "Prefer Old" is normally the best way. You repack takes 3-8 hours, so you set your timer to "every 1 hours, skip if running already" and you can be sure that your job finishes and the next one will start.

- "Prefer New" seems almost useless. You've already spent all this effort doing the job, why are you cancelling it and throwing away the results? If you want to add a timeout, add a timeout, preferably to specific operation. For example, if there job starts by fetching data, and this fetch can be super slow, use 'Prefer Old' and put a timeout on the fetch part. This way your job won't be interrupted if the fetch just finally succeed minutes before next scheduled interval hit.

Oh, and re "If the Prefer Old semantics are not offered, you can’t really emulate them using the two primitives of regular scheduling and limiting concurrency." - you totally can. Set concurrency to 2, and add as a first thing: "fetch the list of jobs running; if there is anyone except me, exit right away".

Really, not that tricky at all.

2 comments

At Google we actually had 'prefer new' (ie a stack instead of a queue) for certain jobs, that were likely no longer useful after some time had passed; and where less and less useful the longer you waited until you started.

One example was running certain ad auctions when rendering websites, or something like that. You don't want to delay serving the side, if the ads are delayed.

So you have a certain wall clock time budget until the rest of the page is assembled to be sent to the user, and if you can fit your ad-serving in there, that's good.

If you have more work than you can currently handle, then it makes sense to continue with the newest open request after you handled the previous request.

The actual system was a lot more complicated, and combined a short, bounded queue on the inside with a large stack on the outside or something like that.

Similar considerations can apply, when you are one of many competing market makers for some financial assets on an exchange.

Basically, if you have a situation where serving quick is a lot more important than the distinction between late and very late (or even dropping the request).

That's just another word for priority queueing.
A priority queue where the last thing to enter the queue is the highest priority is a stack, yes.
> - "Prefer New" seems almost useless. You've already spent all this effort doing the job, why are you cancelling it and throwing away the results?

The obvious use-case is if the result depends on a state and the state has changed since the job has started. Examples would be updating the landing page when a new article has come in (you don't need the outdated landing page w/o the new article) or if you did a code change while compiling (assuming it's not a commit).

For external events, like code update or new publish, sure. But the author talks about scheduled events - it's harder to think of good examples here.

(because with scheduled events, if you missed deadline once, there is a good chance that restarting with exactly the same deadline will miss again, and again, and you will never finish. Better do "prefer old" and at least have _some_ finished data)