[jstimpfle]

I was not asking, and certainly not for a toy example, are you STILL under the impression you need to explain beginner level C++ to me? You can btw remove the move() from the return statement in this example. It's normal to omit it as it is implicit and specifying it does not make a difference. Did I mention that move semantics introduce a ton of complexity and make it non obvious what is happening?

> Keep an open mind, there's a reason people consider old C style archaic.

It is superficially a little bit archaic but it's not as bad or cumbersome as people make it, like baking a good bread from old grains in a modern oven. The point is if you focus on superficialities and micro optimize everything, you will make a mess and get what you deserve (i.e. modern C++).

The result from baking with simple ingredients is better tasting and healthier than a modern factory bread.

What people consider archaic or in particular insufficient is a function of their knowledge and experience. Check out the raddebugger code and the many excellent explanatory videos about the design of the codebase. You will learn a lot and you might change your mind about many of your mainstream positions.

[CyberDildonics]

are you STILL under the impression you need to explain beginner level C++ to me?

Yes

you can btw remove the move() from the return statement in this example.

First you say you have a problem with not knowing if something will copy or move, now you have a problem with an explicit move to rely on copy elision.

Seems like you just want to complain about problems that don't exist.

This is why I think it's necessary to explain the basics.

function of their knowledge and experience

Now we are to the "get good" part of the C true believe argument. People have been trying to get good for 50 years and all the same bugs still happen.

You will learn a lot and you might change your mind about many of your mainstream positions.

I've already been on both sides of this argument. I like data structures, value semantics and avoiding double indirection.

Check out the raddebugger code

Check out the code to every other piece of software you use.